Re: Comment Catcher: Don't Change the Game: Towards Better Allyshipoedipamaas49November 26 2016, 22:48:25 UTC
I wish this were more of a norm everywhere. Good to have it stated explicitly
[OT: i'm surprised by your intuition that "I doubt anybody has ever in your entire lives suggested that changing a conversational topic is ever impolite". Not just because it was drummed into me as a kid, but also because, look, everyone understands this "OT" thing I just did here]
Except that *in person* people frequently think the opposite - that changing the topic is an actual good thing. For instance when your racist uncle is being a racist arse it is usually considered "more polite" to steer the conversation towards some neutral topic like the weather than to actually engage with the topic and have a row about racism.
Heh. A good point. Though to unpack that a bit, it's "more polite" than the other options which might leap to mind, like yelling at the uncle, swearing at him, laying him out across the sideboard with a right cross, or throwing a pie in his face. It's "more polite" than joining the battle at the diningroom table to disrupt his discourse precisely so that he doesn't get to talk about what he wants to.
And I promise, if he was just getting to building up a head of steam on his favorite topic, about how those [redacted] are all [redacted], unless you are amazingly skillful about inventing attractive derails[*], he will be peevish that you changed the topic out from under him.
[* True story time: when I was an undergrad, I had a bio prof who loved to tell Linus Pauling stories. By the end of the term, many members of my class had figured out that if they just didn't feel like having a bio lecture at any given moment, all they had to do was ask a question that had anything to do with Linus Pauling, and that was it for the rest of the
( ... )
Re: Comment Catcher: Don't Change the Game: Towards Better AllyshipsidereaNovember 28 2016, 18:45:37 UTC
It was, in fact, watching the interminable wrangles over the concept of "OT" - from the early days of Usenet through the heydays of email lists into the "sticky" websites of the turn of the millennium right on to our present day where by and large people don't use the "OT" label - that convinced me that this is a completely novel idea for most people. Even when introduced to "OT" (and its kid brother "Ob $Topic:"), even knowing what it means, its use is not understood as a moral or etiquette imperative.
Re: Comment Catcher: Don't Change the Game: Towards Better AllyshipsidereaNovember 27 2016, 01:27:10 UTC
The one relevantly awkward situation I imagine I'd be likely to get into is one in which I'm being directly pressured to play the Short Game in a way that I think will position me poorly for some aspect of the Medium Game.
So far I'm solving that by avoiding people who are likely to get so carried away with themselves as to hector me.
Re: Comment Catcher: Don't Change the Game: Towards Better AllyshipsidereaNovember 27 2016, 03:42:14 UTC
I really like this idea, but I would like to add one thing to it: sometimes the games conflict. This is especially common with the more extreme short game options, which have serious long game costs. I think the best thing to do in cases like this is acknowledge it explicitly.
Re: Comment Catcher: Don't Change the Game: Towards Better AllyshipsidereaNovember 28 2016, 19:45:59 UTC
Absolutely. Nothing about this norm should be construed to suppress discussing possible consequences of ideas and proposals, a la "If we do this for the [Short/Medium/Long] Game it prohibits doing this other thing for the [Medium/Long/Short] Game". Indeed, it provides a language for becoming explicit about that.
Re: Comment Catcher: Don't Change the Game: Towards Better AllyshipsidereaNovember 27 2016, 23:21:29 UTC
Of course. That would be why I lovingly hand-fashioned that "Link for sharing" and embed those EZ-post buttons. :) You never need to ask if you can link to a public post; it is always welcome.
Re: Comment Catcher: Don't Change the Game: Towards Better Allyshipadrian_turtleNovember 28 2016, 20:53:27 UTC
Another problem is that suggesting a different tactic often doesn't feel like changing the subject. Somebody is getting backaches from shoveling snow, and asks for advice at a party. One friend talks about how great those shovels with the curved handles are, and while they're discussing that, another friend suggests getting a snowblower. A few minutes later, somebody else suggests hiring a professional plowing service. Nobody thinks they've changed the subject--they're all trying to help, talking about how to get the snow off the driveway.
There are situations (subcultures?) where it's ok for conversations to shift like this.
Re: Comment Catcher: Don't Change the Game: Towards Better AllyshipsidereaNovember 28 2016, 21:58:30 UTC
This is why I specify this norm is for online spaces. The big difference, here, between online and f2f is that online has structure which make topic obvious and stable in a way f2f does not. If you walk into a cocktail party and people are discussing snow shoveling solutions, you have no way of knowing that 5 minutes ago the original question posed was about backaches; click into a discussion forum, and it's right there to be read
( ... )
Reply
[OT: i'm surprised by your intuition that "I doubt anybody has ever in your entire lives suggested that changing a conversational topic is ever impolite". Not just because it was drummed into me as a kid, but also because, look, everyone understands this "OT" thing I just did here]
Reply
Reply
And I promise, if he was just getting to building up a head of steam on his favorite topic, about how those [redacted] are all [redacted], unless you are amazingly skillful about inventing attractive derails[*], he will be peevish that you changed the topic out from under him.
[* True story time: when I was an undergrad, I had a bio prof who loved to tell Linus Pauling stories. By the end of the term, many members of my class had figured out that if they just didn't feel like having a bio lecture at any given moment, all they had to do was ask a question that had anything to do with Linus Pauling, and that was it for the rest of the ( ... )
Reply
Reply
So far I'm solving that by avoiding people who are likely to get so carried away with themselves as to hector me.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
There are situations (subcultures?) where it's ok for conversations to shift like this.
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment