Re: Comment Catcher: The Dangerous Dualism of Gattacaheron61December 8 2015, 07:15:58 UTC
I very much agree that Gattaca is indeed worth seeing, despite the suggestions it makes that unengineered people are in some way morally or spiritually superior to engineered ones. However, discussions based in it leave out one important aspect of the technologies involved. In addition to genetic engineering of humans, there’s also genetic surgery of the sort that has almost certainly be used by various Olympic athletes for the last several Olympics
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Re: Comment Catcher: The Dangerous Dualism of GattacanancylebovDecember 8 2015, 13:43:03 UTC
I have very mixed feelings about Gattaca. On the one hand, that and The Truman Show were original works which could have been published as golden age science fiction. I like golden age science fiction.
On the other hand, there are serious world-building deficiencies in Gattaca.*
I agree about the utter irresponsibility of the main character cheating to get on a space flight.
Additionally, I doubt that the social divide would be quite as severe-- I think the unaltered people would have a more developed and richer sub-culture and sub-economy. Or I might be wrong-- either by underestimating the power of discrimination, especially when it's amplified by technology, or by failing to accept that things are better for some unaltered people, but that's not the story the movie wants to tell.
You might be interested in a book called The Sports Gene which is about how genetics affect sports performance in obvious and non-obvious ways. (Top batters have ordinary reflexes, but extraordinary visual acuity.) The ability to get better at a sport
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Re: Comment Catcher: The Dangerous Dualism of GattacafabrisseDecember 8 2015, 18:23:37 UTC
Having worked in the District of Columbia for six years now, I see Gattaca as underestimating discrimination. This is a city which has more Ph.D.s per capita than Cambridge, MA and three wards with over 27% illiteracy rates. As the economy gets better in the rest of the country, indeed the rest of the city, those three wards are either stagnating or declining depending upon which statistics you use.
It can be argued that the culture of Anacostia is richer than that presented by the Kennedy Center, but the fact is the performers at the Kennedy Center are more likely to sleep at night with a full belly.
I think you are discounting one of the themes of the film.
Jerome: "Jerome Morrow was never meant to be one step down on the podium." Vincent: "[after Vincent's genetic test] What about the interview?" The Director: "No one exceeds their potential. If they did, it would mean we did not accurately gauge their potential in the first place." Vincent: "You are the authority on what is not possible, aren't you Irene? They've got you looking for any flaw, that after a while that's all you see. For what it's worth, I'm here to tell you that it is possible. It is possible." Vincent: "Is the only way you can succeed is to see me fail?" Anton: "You didn't rescue me. I rescued myself."
Determination can be undermined by complacency and jealousy. It can be misdirected, wasted on keeping others down instead of pushing yourself up. Having good genes in no way guarantees you will be a good person.
Have we found genes that contribute toward making people more empathetic? Are we going to remember to put them in?
Re: Comment Catcher: The Dangerous Dualism of GattacamalovichDecember 8 2015, 19:06:14 UTC
"There Is No Gene For The Human Spirit."
Erm. I will now highly highly recommend Blindsight by Peter Watts. He would laugh at that statement. His footnotes are fascinating and existentially frightening.
Re: holding powersidereaDecember 9 2015, 03:37:19 UTC
The movie depicts a society in which the eponymous employer has finger-prick blood test turnstiles to prevent the non-engineered from even entering the premises.
Re: holding powernuclearpolymerDecember 9 2015, 13:51:24 UTC
I'm not saying that I agree with that sort of putting up rules and policies to advantage your own in-group, I am saying that it happens in this current reality in similar ways. (Though I suppose genetic tests are probably more accurate than visual inspection and filtering based on names.) With less accuracy, that's the same kind of thing as "We don't hire women for these jobs" or "We don't hire people from that caste
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....or even if we don't. It's not like everyone's identical as it stands.
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On the other hand, there are serious world-building deficiencies in Gattaca.*
I agree about the utter irresponsibility of the main character cheating to get on a space flight.
Additionally, I doubt that the social divide would be quite as severe-- I think the unaltered people would have a more developed and richer sub-culture and sub-economy. Or I might be wrong-- either by underestimating the power of discrimination, especially when it's amplified by technology, or by failing to accept that things are better for some unaltered people, but that's not the story the movie wants to tell.
You might be interested in a book called The Sports Gene which is about how genetics affect sports performance in obvious and non-obvious ways. (Top batters have ordinary reflexes, but extraordinary visual acuity.) The ability to get better at a sport ( ... )
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It can be argued that the culture of Anacostia is richer than that presented by the Kennedy Center, but the fact is the performers at the Kennedy Center are more likely to sleep at night with a full belly.
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Jerome: "Jerome Morrow was never meant to be one step down on the podium."
Vincent: "[after Vincent's genetic test] What about the interview?"
The Director: "No one exceeds their potential. If they did, it would mean we did not accurately gauge their potential in the first place."
Vincent: "You are the authority on what is not possible, aren't you Irene? They've got you looking for any flaw, that after a while that's all you see. For what it's worth, I'm here to tell you that it is possible. It is possible."
Vincent: "Is the only way you can succeed is to see me fail?"
Anton: "You didn't rescue me. I rescued myself."
Determination can be undermined by complacency and jealousy. It can be misdirected, wasted on keeping others down instead of pushing yourself up. Having good genes in no way guarantees you will be a good person.
Have we found genes that contribute toward making people more empathetic? Are we going to remember to put them in?
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Erm. I will now highly highly recommend Blindsight by Peter Watts. He would laugh at that statement. His footnotes are fascinating and existentially frightening.
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(And _Blindsight_ is available for free on his website, so monetary cost shouldn't hold you back.)
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