Stuff...
I may do a bit of spamming tonight. Got back from the beach last night. Friday was simply a FLOOD at the beach. So we tended to stay in and watch videos. I re-rented Wimbledon, and as romantic comedies go, I like that one. Also rented In Good Company and found that I enjoyed that one too. Finally, rented Phantom of the Opera and I'm not a fan. Not what I expected, and not my kind of movie. Lovely costuming, but all in all, it wasn't for me.
Saturday cleared up and went down to the beach. Definitely a great deal of damage from Hurricane Dennis there. There must have been a huge storm surge. While buildings away from the beach by only a block have no damage at all, the shore has been eaten to bits. Multi-million dollar homes on the shore have been completely undermined. Entire groups of condos have been undermined so that not only are they hovering above the ground in the rear, but in the front as well, often the parking in front washed away as well.
In Seaside the dunes have been washed away to the point that if you stand in one of the pavillions it's now a 25ft vertical drop down to the beach and only a half-dune remaining. There must have been really impressive waves at the front of the storm to cause this kind of erosion along the shore.
On a more fannish subject this post by Barb - Rahirah has me contemplating my feelings regarding the characters of the Whedonverse. Actually, more often than not my feelings are complex on the subject. It doesn't always seem that way, and it doesn't always feel that way because I think most of my feelings are somewhat contextural, meaning if we're discussing Season 7 in specifics my feelings are pretty much unchanged. The things I protested about character actions and reactions are things I continue to take issue with when discussing seasons six and seven. However, the important part is that those reactions are truly contextural to seasons six and seven. They are only part of the story. When not discussing the seasons, my feelings are, if not always more kind, more objective.
The thing is, I still write BtVS fanfic, and I've never been one to write revenge fantasies in fic, not really. I don't write characters to punish them. I write to understand them. In that context I really, truly, honestly don't hate BtVS characters. In fact I can be very sympathetic to them. This is part of why my feelings concerning the Whedonverse are quite complex. So how do I really feel about the characters? It's a character by character question. In no particular order, my thoughts about various Whedonverse characters:
It's probably easiest to begin with...
Characters I Like and Have No Issues With
Gunn I like him. Now, when looking at the history of Gunn, I tend to have a preference for AtS Season 5 Gunn. I think that was the most complex Gunn because he made compromises that he knows he shouldn't have. One scene that strikes me with Gunn is the Angel/Gunn scene just after Fred died where Angel says that Gunn should be haunted by Fred's death for the rest of his life... because Gunn is a good man. And Gunn is a good man who at times did bad things. Gunn killed Fred's professor which is really inexcusable, and he knows it. Gunn made compromises at W&H that cost Fred her life. And Gunn knew all of that and regretted it. He wasn't angsty and whiny about stuff, but he felt stuff. And I quite simply like Gunn.
Drusilla I like her, and have no desire to change her. I don't think she can be redeemed because my view of Dru is that she's a shattered personality. She's a broken doll that cannot be fixed. I believe that she loved Spike... as well as she was able. But she's broken. She's a child inside who is selfish and self centered in the way that small children are. She loves Spike without understanding what it is she does wrong. She's careless of him, and she has a twisted love/hate with Angel. And... the simple truth is, that she's just so damn much fun to write that she pops up in every fanfic I write, in memory if not in fact. Dru has insights and yet isn't really fully aware of her insights. She's something unique, and I appreciate that about her.
Darla I love Darla. She's just such a bitch and yet, I think she loved Angel as well as she was able. . . which was entirely different than the way that Dru loved Spike. There was something childlike in Dru. I don't think Darla was ever a child. She's a jaded woman. A bitch. Hell on wheels. She's hard and vicious... and I love that about her.
Holtz As villains go, he was my favorite. He was a villain with motivation. He was a villain who WON. I simply like Holtz.
Illyria I like her. Uncompromising (and under explored) as she was, I simply like her.
Anya I loved Anya. I loved her joy in capitalism and sex. I loved her speach about people being stupid. I loved her confusion about death in The Body. She was the only one I cared about in The Body. And, Anya was done wrong, damnit! She deserved more sympathy for being dumped at the altar. She deserved to be treated as more than an embarrassment to Xander. She deserved more. Period. Poor Anya. Undervalued, but I still love her.
Tara She grew on me. I admit I thought she was dull in Season 4, but she slowly grew on me. Ultimately, she was a kind and gentle presence in the Whedonverse and there were very few of those. She had honor, which is rare in the Whedonverse. Okay, so she SUCKED at interpreting Hunchback of Notre Dame, and she too easily condoned Buffy's atrocious behavior in Season 6. But still, all in all, I have great affection for Tara.
Oz I always love the pithy and dry Oz. Yeah, he was a dickhead with Varuca but that always seemed like a way to quickly write him out of the show. It never really made that great of an impression on me, so ultimately when all is said and done, I still care for Oz.
Faith The truth is, I think BtVS wasted Faith in the last few eps of BtVS. And I really hate the Faith/Wood thing. But, that said, I like Faith. I especially like the Faith of AtS. So overall, my general "canon is closed" reaction to Faith is that I like her, flaws and all. (But in my head she doesn't have to stay stuck with Wood).
Characters I Like But Who I Think Suffered From Writing
Fred In general, I really love Fred. And, while I know some have Mary Sue problems with her, I don't. My only real issue with her was her sudden, out of the blue love for Wesley. It didn't fit with all of her earlier actions and the romance at that late stage of the game seemed contrived in the way that Joss tends to contrive romances. Her sudden love was too convenient to coincide with her death so -- yech! Don't care for her sudden twu love for Wes. But, other than that sudden love affair, where the rest is concerned, I like her.
Cordy I always liked Cordy...well, I always liked Cordy but Season 4 AtS when her story just SUCKED. And that's the "suffered from the writing" part. I notice that really, in my head, Season 4 Cordy doesn't exist. Real Cordy is the Cordy BEFORE the character assissination of AtS Season 4. And it's not some WILLFUL denial thing where I just choose to turn a blind eye to Season 4, it's that my gut feelings about the character aren't influenced by Season 4. They don't factor in, and when I stop to wonder why, I realize that I just unconsciously choose to dismiss AtS Season 4. It just doesn't fit with my mental picture of Cordy. So my Cordy is the Cordy I remember, and her I like. (Side Note: I don't know why with some characters I just don't factor in parts of the story while not giving the same pass to other characters. I'm not sure why it happens that way with certain characters. But some characters I can turn a blind eye to the mistakes in writing, and other characters it alters my view of them forever and... that's just the way it is.)
Lilah Now the thing here is, I think a lot of what I love about Lilah is Fanfic Lilah, because Canon!Lilah was never really fleshed out. Yet, despite that, in my head Lilah is a spectacular character of darkness -- much in the way of Darla -- and though she's at least as much Fanfic!Lilah as Canon!Lilah... she's Lilah. And I like her in all her unredeemed, seductive glory. Eve couldn't begin to compare with the real woman Lilah was... and unlike Fred/Wesley, Wilah ROCKED! There was something dark and seductive in Wilah that was just plain interesting to me.
Dawn Okay, this is a slightly more controversial "I'm okay with" character, because Dawn suffered terribly from truly shitty writing. In fact, the girl was utterly useless in Season 7 and mostly annoying in Season 6. And yet, in something related to Cordy, somehow, someway, most of my feelings and concepts of Dawn cease somewhere at the beginning of Season 6. It's like she's teflon and most of the shit that was written for her just didn't stick. She remains mostly Fanfic!Dawn to me. She isn't a major character for me. I don't really wonder about her life. I don't care all that much for Michelle Trachtenberg. I don't have any real REASON why I don't hold Dawn in contempt when really, if I was picky about it, there are many reasons why I should have issues with her. However, when all is said and done, and for reasons I don't understand... I'm okay with Dawn. I still sort of like her, and I cannot even explain why.
Lorne I don't like the way that Lorne's story ended. It was powerful, in its way, but I don't like it. In some small way, that dims some of my affection for him... but not enough to destroy my affection for him. So while I have writing issues, I still like him.
Grusalugg Yeah, he was a joke... he was the Drake Hogestyn of Whedonverse characters and yet... I still want Gru to have a happy ending on the cover of a bodic ripping romance somewhere.
Characters I Like... and yet when I think about it I have real issues with
These are cases similar to Dawn's in that I have many reasons to have issues with these characters, but for some reason my affection for them overwhelms my issues.
Wesley I always loved Wesley. Even when Wesley was the obnoxious nerd in Season 3 BtVS, I liked Wesley. And by the time Wesley was on AtS, I LOVED Wesley. Great love for Wesley. And AtS Season 3 and 4 Wesley? I ADORED. My problem with Wesley is that AtS Season 5 Wesley was... kind of creepy to me. I don't like AtS Season 5 Wesley much at all. I HATE the Fred/Wes thing in AtS Season 5. And I dislike the morose, obsessive Wesley of AtS Season 5... as opposed to hot and bitter AtS Season 4 Wesley. Similar to Cordy, though, my feelings have arrested development with Wesley. AtS Season 5 Wesley doesn't impact my feelings for Wesley. I unconsciously just block it out. My Wesley remains my Wesley still bearing the hallmarks of early Wesley and the hotness of Scruffy Wesley but never becoming the emotionally gutted AtS Season 5 Wesley. Now, I know some love AtS 5 Wesley, but I tend to find that the only version of Wesley that did absolutely NOTHING for me. But because my love of Wesley was so intense, it doesn't dissolve with one season/facet of him that I didn't like. So, canon is closed, and my Wesley (the one who exists in my head) is the Wesley I loved and isn't influenced by the aspects I didn't like. Now, again, I realize this isn't exactly fair to characters where, because of a storyline, my feelings were altered. I don't know why with some characters I dismiss shitty writing and with others it changes my feelings forever... but there it is. My love of Wesley could overcome poor story and/or characterization. Such is not true for all characters. But parts I hated aside... I still love Wes.
Willow I honestly don't know why. There are HUGE PROBLEMS with Willow-love. Willow got given a free pass in Season 7 BtVS that she did NOT deserve. Willow never really dealt with consequences for her actions. Willow is a control freak. Willow got preferential treatment. Willow never really grew up. I really SHOULD have massive issues with Willow, and if I discuss Season 6 and Season 7 in terms of Willow, I can become heated with all the story problems, all the unfair advatages and breaks she was given. I can come off in those discussions as sounding anti-Willow, and yet... and yet... For reasons I cannot name, explain, or even really excuse, they don't impact my feelings about Willow. I still like Willow. It's not a rational thing. There are plenty of reasons to resent her. And, yet, my affection for the character overcomes all the valid reasons to dislike her. It's just one of those things. I still like Willow even though when I look at it objectively, I tend to feel that I shouldn't. I forgive Willow's huge mistakes and unfair slack. I forgive because for some unnamed reason I like her. Just because I like her.
Andrew I like Andrew. The problem I have with Andrew is baggage. He was complicit in the Katrina stuff, and he murdered Jonathan. These are not small things, and they shouldn't be swept under the carpet the way they were. Why, exactly, did he deserve a happy ending? I don't believe he did... and yet, I enjoyed him in all his geekiness so I tend to give him a pass even though I shouldn't.
Lindsay I have issues with Lindsey when I think about it too much. I really dislike the way Lindsay factored into Spike's storyline. I mean, I REALLY dislike it. And yet, somehow I can compartmentalize that and it not overwhelm my otherwise affectionate feelings for Lindsay. Again, it's not exactly fair, but there it is. I like Lindsay even DESPITE the way his story went.
Characters where I have conflict... and my feelings for the characters are the worse for wear
Okay, I've mentioned the characters who even though they had stories that I disliked, characterizations that I disliked, etc. For those characters, for some reasons, the ill feelings didn't stick. However, there are characters where the plot point sticks and it changes them. So even though I may not hate, hate, HATE them, not only do I no longer love them, but I'm not sure that I like them. These aren't heated feelings. It's ambivalence and perhaps some internal conflict. I have some lingering affection and lingering distaste.
Xander I loved Xander once upon at time. No, honestly, I did. But I grew to resent him and his actions. And as Season 6 rolled around, there were things about him that I really hated. And, unlike with other characters, the things I hated overwhelmed the love, dimmed it... tainted it. Xander improved a bit here and there in Season 7. I LIKE Nick Brendon. In fact I like him enough to forgive Xander a lot of things. And I can almost find the love again, but, while with many characters I can dismiss developments, there's something about Xander's story that I can't dismiss and can't quite...well... forgive isn't the right word. But I can't quite EMBRACE the character. Somewhere along the line something was introduced into Xander, in his self-righteousness and judgemental behavior that I can't bring myself to like. So I have the conflicted feelings of having once loved Xander but not loving him anymore. The love is enough to keep me from hating him, but it's not enough to make me overlook and discount in the way that I can with other characters. I have no real heat in my Xander-feelings any more. I just have this sort of mild distaste and regret because I did like him once. Now, in a chicken and egg thing... is this partly because I don't deal with Xander in fanfic? Many of my heated feelings for some characters (*cough*Buffy*cough*) are worked out via fanfic. Fanfic brings me to a better understanding of the character. However, I've never had enough interest in Xander to feature him much (if at all) in a story. I don't really think about the story from Xander's POV. His POV doesn't matter much to me. I've written a few scenes from his POV but mostly, he bores me. Without writing much of anything from his POV I just can't recapture a sense of empathy for him. So is Xander partly doomed in my affections because I'm bored by him? I suspect this is partly the case.
Giles Like Xander, once upon a time, I really loved Giles. But something in the way that Giles was written in Season 7 killed a lot of that love. I still like ASH a great deal, and I don't have any heated feelings for Giles. I don't HATE Giles. In fact, I've never hated Giles. But Giles became this person in Season 7 who doesn't inspire affection for me. Giles was stiff, unadaptable... and had a closed mind. Giles tried to control Buffy. Judged Buffy. He ran out on a suicidal Buffy, and he did nothing when they kicked Buffy out of her own house. And, of course, he helped AMBUSH of Spike with Wood. These things taint Giles for me. Strangely, if Giles had tried to KILL Spike himself, I probably would have forgiven him. But there's something so very WEENIE-like in sending Spike off with Wood for WOOD to kill. There's just no redemption in that. No honor. I could respect a Giles who decided Spike was a danger and killed him. I cannot respect a Giles who sent Spike off with Wood. That's different in some essential way. It's cold, distant, Macchiavellian. It's not coming from the passion. It's cowardly and calculated. It's the action of someone who is doing something almost petty, knows it, and isn't embarrassed about it. And then that mistake is compounded by not having Giles react to Spike's death by saving the world. That reaction -- just a moment of RESPECT -- would have redeemed him somewhat, but... no. Nothing.
Then there's Season 5 AtS where, again, there's something very dismissive and WEENIE in sending Andrew to deal with Angel. Just spit on Angel, why don't you, Giles! I mean -- it's ANDREW!!! You sent freaking ANDREW!!! You had ANDREW diss Angel, and in doing so you were doing something petty to Angel yourself (I know there were meta reasons, but within story -- it was Giles being a WEENIE). And it's not that I don't give Giles the right to hate Angel forever. But you can respect your enemies. I would support Giles to spit in Angel's face and snark at him. I don't support the snide kind of insult of sending ANDREW to deal with Angel. Then the final thing was Giles not allowing any contact with Willow when Fred was DYING!!! Fred was dying and Giles was trying to control the situation. Now, no, there was nothing Giles or Willow could have done, but GILES didn't know that. Giles was just being...well... controlling and petty. These things, these actions overwhelmed my love of Giles. They haven't to the point that I HATE Giles... but the things were weenie, cowardly and CONSISTENT enough to displace all the affection.
Maybe that's why Giles and Xander suffer most. Their problems weren't just once or twice. It wasn't one incident or even one season. There was something CONSISTENT in their behavior. Season 2 Xander could be a judgemental dick... so I can't dismiss it as poor characterization in Season 6. The Xander who lied to Buffy in Becoming II could easily become the Xander throwing axes and having hissy fits about that vampire daying to touch HIS women! The Xander who was an asshole and embarrassed of Anya...well... always, could easily be the guy who left her at the altar and thought he could still have sex benefits (now, I'm not blaming him for not going through with the wedding. But to dump her at the ALTAR?! To leave HER to deal with HIS crappy parents? To face that humiliation all ALONE, and then to show up and think he still has sex rights?! ANd the insane GALL to think he had any place to judge her for then sleeping with someone else?!) What was HORRIBLE about Xander was there even when I liked him, so it just feels like the worst posisble Xander rather than a totally out of character Xander. It fits enough to still ring true of him, so I can't dismiss it. Same with Giles. While I HATE the pure WEENIENESS of his behavior in Season 7 and AtS 5, I remember him as the guy who locked Buffy up in Helpless. I never forgave Helpless. I simply chose to look at it as an aberration. But Helpless in context with Season 6 & 7 doesn't seem like an aberration any longer. It seems like a particularly ugly and unlikable aspect of his personality... and therefore I can't dismiss that Giles can be this uncompromising man who is more Watcher than you could ever want to believe. And as much as I WANT to love Giles again, there's a distance there and there's just some level where I just... don't. I don't hate Giles... but I kind of think he has some very unattractive traits. My view of Giles was altered to the point that I just don't see him the same way any more.
Connor Can't quite forget about Connor. Actually, I liked AtS 5 Connor. The problem is that AtS 4 Connor was SOOOOOO screwed up that I can never quite buy that Connor 5 was real. He certainly shouldn't be well adjusted after his memory was returned. He killed an innocent girl. He was a suicide bomber. Connor 5 seems so very unlikely given who Connor 4 was. And Connor 4 was SO unattractive that my like of Connor 5 cannot reconcile itself with my dislike of Connor 4. And I can't convince myself that Connor should be well adjusted. So while I have no hard feelings regaring Connor, I'm not sure that I totally buy Connor either.
Characters I Love -- issues and all
Yes. It's the vamps. It's the boys. Spike and Angel. I love 'em is all. I just love 'em... which isn't to say I don't have issues. It's not to say that I loved every incarnation equally. It's not to say there weren't deeply shitty things done to them and in their names. They suffered from writing and from plots... and yet I forgive. I always forgive. I will always forgive... because I love them.
Angel The big goof can drive me NUTS. I can become angry with the character. I can rattle off a string of flaws. Angel is NOT my own concept of romantic hero. Angel is too Alpha Hero for my romantic tastes. So Angel isn't a romantic lead for me and I don't ship him. I can bitch about Angel. I can become angry about the character. I can list all his psychological problems, and I blame him for screwing Buffy up so much that she's damn near useless. But, all this aside, I find Angel fascinating. Not DB so much. I can enjoy DB, but he isn't someone particularly compelling to me. But Angel is complex enough, screwed-up enough, haunted enough, and contradictory enough that I simply find him to be fascinating. And I feel for the doof. Sometimes it's pity and sometimes it's love, and sometimes it's exasperation. For all his problems, mistakes, and occasional assiness... I forgive. It's Angel and I forgive... and I find myself liking him.
Spike My love is unshaken. No, AtS 5 Spike wasn't the best of Spike. And no, for me, Season 7 Martyr!Spike was ALSO not the best of Spike (I'm not into martyrdom or in emotionally gutted characters which is part of why I don't care for AtS 5 Wesley and why Season 6 Buffy drives me insane!). So, yeah, there are incarnations of Spike where I had real problems in terms of characterization. And yet... it's Spike. Mercurial, quixotic, screwed-up Spike. And for Spike, I can take the bad with the good. I can take the screwed-up, poor characterization, and incoherent rage-making manipulative plot devices with the characterization of the Spike that is my mental template of the character... and I can do so because Spike WAS mercurial and multi-faceted. The things I disliked in Season 7 are parts of him, just as things I disliked in AtS 5 are parts of him. And the things I loved in Season 7 Spike and in AtS Season 5 Spike are also parts of him. And the BtVS Season 5 Spike that I fell in love with in the first place? Oh, hell yes, those are part of Spike as well. For me, Spike is an endlessly expansive character. All of these things are FACETS, not the whole. Sometimes we see a facet that isn't flattering, but it's not all there is. There's more. And the part we loved, that drew us to him in the beginning, is STILL a part of him. He just gains in complexity. It's ALL Spike. So the story never overwhelms the character for me. The mistakes never destroy the creation, because the creation is more than the sum of his parts. It's more than one episode's or one season's plot (or plot device). He's more. He's all of them. He's just that complex.
I don't claim that my forgiving love and view of "it's all good" that characterizes my love of Spike and Angel is FAIR to other characters who I'm not so kind to... but there it is. If forgive them because there's something about them that leads me to forgive them. There's something about them that convinces me that their dickhead moments are just moments, and that there are other, redeeming qualities to them. And if I don't like what I'm seeing now... wait five minutes and another facet will appear.
Spike CANNOT be destroyed for me because whatever it is on screeen in any moment is only PART of the story. It's PART of who he is... it's never, ever, EVER all of it. And, in many respects, my reaction to Angel is similar (though less influenced by slavering fangirl love).
And Then There's Buffy...
Buffy is a difficult case for me. Ultimately, for me, I tend to have a compartmentalization thing going on. There's the Buffy who could have been. This is the Buffy would could have existed had the story gone somewhat differently. It's the Buffy who can be in fanfic. It's the Buffy who takes all the raw material of canon Buffy... and doesn't let her get away with shit. It's the canon Buffy with an infusion of reflection and self awareness. It's the woman she was CAPABLE of being. It's a Buffy who is made emotionally available to me. THAT Buffy I can care about. THAT Buffy I can write about or read about. THAT Buffy is interesting to me. And it's not that she's an entirely different creature from Canon!Buffy, it's who Canon!Buffy could have been. It's Season 1, Season 2, Season 3, 4, 5 Buffy. It's even Season 6 Buffy if she was capable of honesty with herself. It's that Buffy if she was allowed to grow up. That's a Buffy I can embrace and still care about.
But... for me, taht is NOT the Buffy who was there in End of Days, Chosen, or The Girl in Question. That Canon!Buffy...well, I hold that Canon!Buffy in contempt. And, if I think abouther much, yeah, I sort of hate her. I hate her for having the potential to be more and never actually BEING more. I hate her for the way that Marti and Joss view her, as if she's OKAY that way, as if she's not BROKEN that way. I hate that they LEFT her that way and left me believing that THAT Buffy didn't possess the skills to be able to realize that being that way was NOT okay. I hate that Canon!Buffy was, and is cookie dough 4 evah because Marti and Joss weren't interested in teaching her that she needed an Easy Bake Oven!... And few lightbulbs! And she needed to shove herself inside it and actually BAKE for a while. I hate that they ended it with her making excuses for herself and that what they showed in TGIQ was what I pretty much guessed because Joss wasn't allowing her to grow up. I hate that Buffy for all of her wasted potential, because she COULD have been so much more. (And I know some people see Season 7 Buffy as accepting her wrongs and changing or at least realizing as Spike dies some deep emotional truth... but I don't. I just don't. Not enough, for me. Too little, too late. I just... I didn't buy it. It didn't work for me). Buffy COULD have been better. She COULD have had an emotional life that was compelling and complex and instead it ended up just.... bleugh!
So, yeah, I'm ambivalent with Buffy. Fanfic!Buffy, the Buffy that could have been is complex, haunted, difficult and compelling. The Buffy that could grow and could reflect upon her actions and herself and, most importantly, learn to make efforts to actively CHANGE is a Buffy I can embrace. I can still care deeply for fanfic Buffy. Canon!Buffy, however... Well, if I discuss Season 6, 7, or TGIQ Buffy, I end up calling her names and seeing all the ways she's excused for things I don't excuse. I know it's not fair. I know I forgive other characters for their mistakes. But, I don't forgive CanonBuffy for so many reasons.
I love the Buffy who could be created from Buffy's raw material. I dislike the Buffy that ME perpetuated. I love fanfic Buffy... Joss and Marti's? Not so much.
Characters I don't give a rats ass about
Kennedy No reason to give a damn about the character.
Warren No redeeming quality to the character.
Justine ditto
Eve ditto
Riley Riley has redeeming qualities. He has his flaws, but all in all, not really big issues with Riley as a character. Well, no issue other than he puts me to sleep. I just don't care one way or another about him.
Saturday cleared up and went down to the beach. Definitely a great deal of damage from Hurricane Dennis there. There must have been a huge storm surge. While buildings away from the beach by only a block have no damage at all, the shore has been eaten to bits. Multi-million dollar homes on the shore have been completely undermined. Entire groups of condos have been undermined so that not only are they hovering above the ground in the rear, but in the front as well, often the parking in front washed away as well.
In Seaside the dunes have been washed away to the point that if you stand in one of the pavillions it's now a 25ft vertical drop down to the beach and only a half-dune remaining. There must have been really impressive waves at the front of the storm to cause this kind of erosion along the shore.
On a more fannish subject this post by Barb - Rahirah has me contemplating my feelings regarding the characters of the Whedonverse. Actually, more often than not my feelings are complex on the subject. It doesn't always seem that way, and it doesn't always feel that way because I think most of my feelings are somewhat contextural, meaning if we're discussing Season 7 in specifics my feelings are pretty much unchanged. The things I protested about character actions and reactions are things I continue to take issue with when discussing seasons six and seven. However, the important part is that those reactions are truly contextural to seasons six and seven. They are only part of the story. When not discussing the seasons, my feelings are, if not always more kind, more objective.
The thing is, I still write BtVS fanfic, and I've never been one to write revenge fantasies in fic, not really. I don't write characters to punish them. I write to understand them. In that context I really, truly, honestly don't hate BtVS characters. In fact I can be very sympathetic to them. This is part of why my feelings concerning the Whedonverse are quite complex. So how do I really feel about the characters? It's a character by character question. In no particular order, my thoughts about various Whedonverse characters:
It's probably easiest to begin with...
Characters I Like and Have No Issues With
Gunn I like him. Now, when looking at the history of Gunn, I tend to have a preference for AtS Season 5 Gunn. I think that was the most complex Gunn because he made compromises that he knows he shouldn't have. One scene that strikes me with Gunn is the Angel/Gunn scene just after Fred died where Angel says that Gunn should be haunted by Fred's death for the rest of his life... because Gunn is a good man. And Gunn is a good man who at times did bad things. Gunn killed Fred's professor which is really inexcusable, and he knows it. Gunn made compromises at W&H that cost Fred her life. And Gunn knew all of that and regretted it. He wasn't angsty and whiny about stuff, but he felt stuff. And I quite simply like Gunn.
Drusilla I like her, and have no desire to change her. I don't think she can be redeemed because my view of Dru is that she's a shattered personality. She's a broken doll that cannot be fixed. I believe that she loved Spike... as well as she was able. But she's broken. She's a child inside who is selfish and self centered in the way that small children are. She loves Spike without understanding what it is she does wrong. She's careless of him, and she has a twisted love/hate with Angel. And... the simple truth is, that she's just so damn much fun to write that she pops up in every fanfic I write, in memory if not in fact. Dru has insights and yet isn't really fully aware of her insights. She's something unique, and I appreciate that about her.
Darla I love Darla. She's just such a bitch and yet, I think she loved Angel as well as she was able. . . which was entirely different than the way that Dru loved Spike. There was something childlike in Dru. I don't think Darla was ever a child. She's a jaded woman. A bitch. Hell on wheels. She's hard and vicious... and I love that about her.
Holtz As villains go, he was my favorite. He was a villain with motivation. He was a villain who WON. I simply like Holtz.
Illyria I like her. Uncompromising (and under explored) as she was, I simply like her.
Anya I loved Anya. I loved her joy in capitalism and sex. I loved her speach about people being stupid. I loved her confusion about death in The Body. She was the only one I cared about in The Body. And, Anya was done wrong, damnit! She deserved more sympathy for being dumped at the altar. She deserved to be treated as more than an embarrassment to Xander. She deserved more. Period. Poor Anya. Undervalued, but I still love her.
Tara She grew on me. I admit I thought she was dull in Season 4, but she slowly grew on me. Ultimately, she was a kind and gentle presence in the Whedonverse and there were very few of those. She had honor, which is rare in the Whedonverse. Okay, so she SUCKED at interpreting Hunchback of Notre Dame, and she too easily condoned Buffy's atrocious behavior in Season 6. But still, all in all, I have great affection for Tara.
Oz I always love the pithy and dry Oz. Yeah, he was a dickhead with Varuca but that always seemed like a way to quickly write him out of the show. It never really made that great of an impression on me, so ultimately when all is said and done, I still care for Oz.
Faith The truth is, I think BtVS wasted Faith in the last few eps of BtVS. And I really hate the Faith/Wood thing. But, that said, I like Faith. I especially like the Faith of AtS. So overall, my general "canon is closed" reaction to Faith is that I like her, flaws and all. (But in my head she doesn't have to stay stuck with Wood).
Characters I Like But Who I Think Suffered From Writing
Fred In general, I really love Fred. And, while I know some have Mary Sue problems with her, I don't. My only real issue with her was her sudden, out of the blue love for Wesley. It didn't fit with all of her earlier actions and the romance at that late stage of the game seemed contrived in the way that Joss tends to contrive romances. Her sudden love was too convenient to coincide with her death so -- yech! Don't care for her sudden twu love for Wes. But, other than that sudden love affair, where the rest is concerned, I like her.
Cordy I always liked Cordy...well, I always liked Cordy but Season 4 AtS when her story just SUCKED. And that's the "suffered from the writing" part. I notice that really, in my head, Season 4 Cordy doesn't exist. Real Cordy is the Cordy BEFORE the character assissination of AtS Season 4. And it's not some WILLFUL denial thing where I just choose to turn a blind eye to Season 4, it's that my gut feelings about the character aren't influenced by Season 4. They don't factor in, and when I stop to wonder why, I realize that I just unconsciously choose to dismiss AtS Season 4. It just doesn't fit with my mental picture of Cordy. So my Cordy is the Cordy I remember, and her I like. (Side Note: I don't know why with some characters I just don't factor in parts of the story while not giving the same pass to other characters. I'm not sure why it happens that way with certain characters. But some characters I can turn a blind eye to the mistakes in writing, and other characters it alters my view of them forever and... that's just the way it is.)
Lilah Now the thing here is, I think a lot of what I love about Lilah is Fanfic Lilah, because Canon!Lilah was never really fleshed out. Yet, despite that, in my head Lilah is a spectacular character of darkness -- much in the way of Darla -- and though she's at least as much Fanfic!Lilah as Canon!Lilah... she's Lilah. And I like her in all her unredeemed, seductive glory. Eve couldn't begin to compare with the real woman Lilah was... and unlike Fred/Wesley, Wilah ROCKED! There was something dark and seductive in Wilah that was just plain interesting to me.
Dawn Okay, this is a slightly more controversial "I'm okay with" character, because Dawn suffered terribly from truly shitty writing. In fact, the girl was utterly useless in Season 7 and mostly annoying in Season 6. And yet, in something related to Cordy, somehow, someway, most of my feelings and concepts of Dawn cease somewhere at the beginning of Season 6. It's like she's teflon and most of the shit that was written for her just didn't stick. She remains mostly Fanfic!Dawn to me. She isn't a major character for me. I don't really wonder about her life. I don't care all that much for Michelle Trachtenberg. I don't have any real REASON why I don't hold Dawn in contempt when really, if I was picky about it, there are many reasons why I should have issues with her. However, when all is said and done, and for reasons I don't understand... I'm okay with Dawn. I still sort of like her, and I cannot even explain why.
Lorne I don't like the way that Lorne's story ended. It was powerful, in its way, but I don't like it. In some small way, that dims some of my affection for him... but not enough to destroy my affection for him. So while I have writing issues, I still like him.
Grusalugg Yeah, he was a joke... he was the Drake Hogestyn of Whedonverse characters and yet... I still want Gru to have a happy ending on the cover of a bodic ripping romance somewhere.
Characters I Like... and yet when I think about it I have real issues with
These are cases similar to Dawn's in that I have many reasons to have issues with these characters, but for some reason my affection for them overwhelms my issues.
Wesley I always loved Wesley. Even when Wesley was the obnoxious nerd in Season 3 BtVS, I liked Wesley. And by the time Wesley was on AtS, I LOVED Wesley. Great love for Wesley. And AtS Season 3 and 4 Wesley? I ADORED. My problem with Wesley is that AtS Season 5 Wesley was... kind of creepy to me. I don't like AtS Season 5 Wesley much at all. I HATE the Fred/Wes thing in AtS Season 5. And I dislike the morose, obsessive Wesley of AtS Season 5... as opposed to hot and bitter AtS Season 4 Wesley. Similar to Cordy, though, my feelings have arrested development with Wesley. AtS Season 5 Wesley doesn't impact my feelings for Wesley. I unconsciously just block it out. My Wesley remains my Wesley still bearing the hallmarks of early Wesley and the hotness of Scruffy Wesley but never becoming the emotionally gutted AtS Season 5 Wesley. Now, I know some love AtS 5 Wesley, but I tend to find that the only version of Wesley that did absolutely NOTHING for me. But because my love of Wesley was so intense, it doesn't dissolve with one season/facet of him that I didn't like. So, canon is closed, and my Wesley (the one who exists in my head) is the Wesley I loved and isn't influenced by the aspects I didn't like. Now, again, I realize this isn't exactly fair to characters where, because of a storyline, my feelings were altered. I don't know why with some characters I dismiss shitty writing and with others it changes my feelings forever... but there it is. My love of Wesley could overcome poor story and/or characterization. Such is not true for all characters. But parts I hated aside... I still love Wes.
Willow I honestly don't know why. There are HUGE PROBLEMS with Willow-love. Willow got given a free pass in Season 7 BtVS that she did NOT deserve. Willow never really dealt with consequences for her actions. Willow is a control freak. Willow got preferential treatment. Willow never really grew up. I really SHOULD have massive issues with Willow, and if I discuss Season 6 and Season 7 in terms of Willow, I can become heated with all the story problems, all the unfair advatages and breaks she was given. I can come off in those discussions as sounding anti-Willow, and yet... and yet... For reasons I cannot name, explain, or even really excuse, they don't impact my feelings about Willow. I still like Willow. It's not a rational thing. There are plenty of reasons to resent her. And, yet, my affection for the character overcomes all the valid reasons to dislike her. It's just one of those things. I still like Willow even though when I look at it objectively, I tend to feel that I shouldn't. I forgive Willow's huge mistakes and unfair slack. I forgive because for some unnamed reason I like her. Just because I like her.
Andrew I like Andrew. The problem I have with Andrew is baggage. He was complicit in the Katrina stuff, and he murdered Jonathan. These are not small things, and they shouldn't be swept under the carpet the way they were. Why, exactly, did he deserve a happy ending? I don't believe he did... and yet, I enjoyed him in all his geekiness so I tend to give him a pass even though I shouldn't.
Lindsay I have issues with Lindsey when I think about it too much. I really dislike the way Lindsay factored into Spike's storyline. I mean, I REALLY dislike it. And yet, somehow I can compartmentalize that and it not overwhelm my otherwise affectionate feelings for Lindsay. Again, it's not exactly fair, but there it is. I like Lindsay even DESPITE the way his story went.
Characters where I have conflict... and my feelings for the characters are the worse for wear
Okay, I've mentioned the characters who even though they had stories that I disliked, characterizations that I disliked, etc. For those characters, for some reasons, the ill feelings didn't stick. However, there are characters where the plot point sticks and it changes them. So even though I may not hate, hate, HATE them, not only do I no longer love them, but I'm not sure that I like them. These aren't heated feelings. It's ambivalence and perhaps some internal conflict. I have some lingering affection and lingering distaste.
Xander I loved Xander once upon at time. No, honestly, I did. But I grew to resent him and his actions. And as Season 6 rolled around, there were things about him that I really hated. And, unlike with other characters, the things I hated overwhelmed the love, dimmed it... tainted it. Xander improved a bit here and there in Season 7. I LIKE Nick Brendon. In fact I like him enough to forgive Xander a lot of things. And I can almost find the love again, but, while with many characters I can dismiss developments, there's something about Xander's story that I can't dismiss and can't quite...well... forgive isn't the right word. But I can't quite EMBRACE the character. Somewhere along the line something was introduced into Xander, in his self-righteousness and judgemental behavior that I can't bring myself to like. So I have the conflicted feelings of having once loved Xander but not loving him anymore. The love is enough to keep me from hating him, but it's not enough to make me overlook and discount in the way that I can with other characters. I have no real heat in my Xander-feelings any more. I just have this sort of mild distaste and regret because I did like him once. Now, in a chicken and egg thing... is this partly because I don't deal with Xander in fanfic? Many of my heated feelings for some characters (*cough*Buffy*cough*) are worked out via fanfic. Fanfic brings me to a better understanding of the character. However, I've never had enough interest in Xander to feature him much (if at all) in a story. I don't really think about the story from Xander's POV. His POV doesn't matter much to me. I've written a few scenes from his POV but mostly, he bores me. Without writing much of anything from his POV I just can't recapture a sense of empathy for him. So is Xander partly doomed in my affections because I'm bored by him? I suspect this is partly the case.
Giles Like Xander, once upon a time, I really loved Giles. But something in the way that Giles was written in Season 7 killed a lot of that love. I still like ASH a great deal, and I don't have any heated feelings for Giles. I don't HATE Giles. In fact, I've never hated Giles. But Giles became this person in Season 7 who doesn't inspire affection for me. Giles was stiff, unadaptable... and had a closed mind. Giles tried to control Buffy. Judged Buffy. He ran out on a suicidal Buffy, and he did nothing when they kicked Buffy out of her own house. And, of course, he helped AMBUSH of Spike with Wood. These things taint Giles for me. Strangely, if Giles had tried to KILL Spike himself, I probably would have forgiven him. But there's something so very WEENIE-like in sending Spike off with Wood for WOOD to kill. There's just no redemption in that. No honor. I could respect a Giles who decided Spike was a danger and killed him. I cannot respect a Giles who sent Spike off with Wood. That's different in some essential way. It's cold, distant, Macchiavellian. It's not coming from the passion. It's cowardly and calculated. It's the action of someone who is doing something almost petty, knows it, and isn't embarrassed about it. And then that mistake is compounded by not having Giles react to Spike's death by saving the world. That reaction -- just a moment of RESPECT -- would have redeemed him somewhat, but... no. Nothing.
Then there's Season 5 AtS where, again, there's something very dismissive and WEENIE in sending Andrew to deal with Angel. Just spit on Angel, why don't you, Giles! I mean -- it's ANDREW!!! You sent freaking ANDREW!!! You had ANDREW diss Angel, and in doing so you were doing something petty to Angel yourself (I know there were meta reasons, but within story -- it was Giles being a WEENIE). And it's not that I don't give Giles the right to hate Angel forever. But you can respect your enemies. I would support Giles to spit in Angel's face and snark at him. I don't support the snide kind of insult of sending ANDREW to deal with Angel. Then the final thing was Giles not allowing any contact with Willow when Fred was DYING!!! Fred was dying and Giles was trying to control the situation. Now, no, there was nothing Giles or Willow could have done, but GILES didn't know that. Giles was just being...well... controlling and petty. These things, these actions overwhelmed my love of Giles. They haven't to the point that I HATE Giles... but the things were weenie, cowardly and CONSISTENT enough to displace all the affection.
Maybe that's why Giles and Xander suffer most. Their problems weren't just once or twice. It wasn't one incident or even one season. There was something CONSISTENT in their behavior. Season 2 Xander could be a judgemental dick... so I can't dismiss it as poor characterization in Season 6. The Xander who lied to Buffy in Becoming II could easily become the Xander throwing axes and having hissy fits about that vampire daying to touch HIS women! The Xander who was an asshole and embarrassed of Anya...well... always, could easily be the guy who left her at the altar and thought he could still have sex benefits (now, I'm not blaming him for not going through with the wedding. But to dump her at the ALTAR?! To leave HER to deal with HIS crappy parents? To face that humiliation all ALONE, and then to show up and think he still has sex rights?! ANd the insane GALL to think he had any place to judge her for then sleeping with someone else?!) What was HORRIBLE about Xander was there even when I liked him, so it just feels like the worst posisble Xander rather than a totally out of character Xander. It fits enough to still ring true of him, so I can't dismiss it. Same with Giles. While I HATE the pure WEENIENESS of his behavior in Season 7 and AtS 5, I remember him as the guy who locked Buffy up in Helpless. I never forgave Helpless. I simply chose to look at it as an aberration. But Helpless in context with Season 6 & 7 doesn't seem like an aberration any longer. It seems like a particularly ugly and unlikable aspect of his personality... and therefore I can't dismiss that Giles can be this uncompromising man who is more Watcher than you could ever want to believe. And as much as I WANT to love Giles again, there's a distance there and there's just some level where I just... don't. I don't hate Giles... but I kind of think he has some very unattractive traits. My view of Giles was altered to the point that I just don't see him the same way any more.
Connor Can't quite forget about Connor. Actually, I liked AtS 5 Connor. The problem is that AtS 4 Connor was SOOOOOO screwed up that I can never quite buy that Connor 5 was real. He certainly shouldn't be well adjusted after his memory was returned. He killed an innocent girl. He was a suicide bomber. Connor 5 seems so very unlikely given who Connor 4 was. And Connor 4 was SO unattractive that my like of Connor 5 cannot reconcile itself with my dislike of Connor 4. And I can't convince myself that Connor should be well adjusted. So while I have no hard feelings regaring Connor, I'm not sure that I totally buy Connor either.
Characters I Love -- issues and all
Yes. It's the vamps. It's the boys. Spike and Angel. I love 'em is all. I just love 'em... which isn't to say I don't have issues. It's not to say that I loved every incarnation equally. It's not to say there weren't deeply shitty things done to them and in their names. They suffered from writing and from plots... and yet I forgive. I always forgive. I will always forgive... because I love them.
Angel The big goof can drive me NUTS. I can become angry with the character. I can rattle off a string of flaws. Angel is NOT my own concept of romantic hero. Angel is too Alpha Hero for my romantic tastes. So Angel isn't a romantic lead for me and I don't ship him. I can bitch about Angel. I can become angry about the character. I can list all his psychological problems, and I blame him for screwing Buffy up so much that she's damn near useless. But, all this aside, I find Angel fascinating. Not DB so much. I can enjoy DB, but he isn't someone particularly compelling to me. But Angel is complex enough, screwed-up enough, haunted enough, and contradictory enough that I simply find him to be fascinating. And I feel for the doof. Sometimes it's pity and sometimes it's love, and sometimes it's exasperation. For all his problems, mistakes, and occasional assiness... I forgive. It's Angel and I forgive... and I find myself liking him.
Spike My love is unshaken. No, AtS 5 Spike wasn't the best of Spike. And no, for me, Season 7 Martyr!Spike was ALSO not the best of Spike (I'm not into martyrdom or in emotionally gutted characters which is part of why I don't care for AtS 5 Wesley and why Season 6 Buffy drives me insane!). So, yeah, there are incarnations of Spike where I had real problems in terms of characterization. And yet... it's Spike. Mercurial, quixotic, screwed-up Spike. And for Spike, I can take the bad with the good. I can take the screwed-up, poor characterization, and incoherent rage-making manipulative plot devices with the characterization of the Spike that is my mental template of the character... and I can do so because Spike WAS mercurial and multi-faceted. The things I disliked in Season 7 are parts of him, just as things I disliked in AtS 5 are parts of him. And the things I loved in Season 7 Spike and in AtS Season 5 Spike are also parts of him. And the BtVS Season 5 Spike that I fell in love with in the first place? Oh, hell yes, those are part of Spike as well. For me, Spike is an endlessly expansive character. All of these things are FACETS, not the whole. Sometimes we see a facet that isn't flattering, but it's not all there is. There's more. And the part we loved, that drew us to him in the beginning, is STILL a part of him. He just gains in complexity. It's ALL Spike. So the story never overwhelms the character for me. The mistakes never destroy the creation, because the creation is more than the sum of his parts. It's more than one episode's or one season's plot (or plot device). He's more. He's all of them. He's just that complex.
I don't claim that my forgiving love and view of "it's all good" that characterizes my love of Spike and Angel is FAIR to other characters who I'm not so kind to... but there it is. If forgive them because there's something about them that leads me to forgive them. There's something about them that convinces me that their dickhead moments are just moments, and that there are other, redeeming qualities to them. And if I don't like what I'm seeing now... wait five minutes and another facet will appear.
Spike CANNOT be destroyed for me because whatever it is on screeen in any moment is only PART of the story. It's PART of who he is... it's never, ever, EVER all of it. And, in many respects, my reaction to Angel is similar (though less influenced by slavering fangirl love).
And Then There's Buffy...
Buffy is a difficult case for me. Ultimately, for me, I tend to have a compartmentalization thing going on. There's the Buffy who could have been. This is the Buffy would could have existed had the story gone somewhat differently. It's the Buffy who can be in fanfic. It's the Buffy who takes all the raw material of canon Buffy... and doesn't let her get away with shit. It's the canon Buffy with an infusion of reflection and self awareness. It's the woman she was CAPABLE of being. It's a Buffy who is made emotionally available to me. THAT Buffy I can care about. THAT Buffy I can write about or read about. THAT Buffy is interesting to me. And it's not that she's an entirely different creature from Canon!Buffy, it's who Canon!Buffy could have been. It's Season 1, Season 2, Season 3, 4, 5 Buffy. It's even Season 6 Buffy if she was capable of honesty with herself. It's that Buffy if she was allowed to grow up. That's a Buffy I can embrace and still care about.
But... for me, taht is NOT the Buffy who was there in End of Days, Chosen, or The Girl in Question. That Canon!Buffy...well, I hold that Canon!Buffy in contempt. And, if I think abouther much, yeah, I sort of hate her. I hate her for having the potential to be more and never actually BEING more. I hate her for the way that Marti and Joss view her, as if she's OKAY that way, as if she's not BROKEN that way. I hate that they LEFT her that way and left me believing that THAT Buffy didn't possess the skills to be able to realize that being that way was NOT okay. I hate that Canon!Buffy was, and is cookie dough 4 evah because Marti and Joss weren't interested in teaching her that she needed an Easy Bake Oven!... And few lightbulbs! And she needed to shove herself inside it and actually BAKE for a while. I hate that they ended it with her making excuses for herself and that what they showed in TGIQ was what I pretty much guessed because Joss wasn't allowing her to grow up. I hate that Buffy for all of her wasted potential, because she COULD have been so much more. (And I know some people see Season 7 Buffy as accepting her wrongs and changing or at least realizing as Spike dies some deep emotional truth... but I don't. I just don't. Not enough, for me. Too little, too late. I just... I didn't buy it. It didn't work for me). Buffy COULD have been better. She COULD have had an emotional life that was compelling and complex and instead it ended up just.... bleugh!
So, yeah, I'm ambivalent with Buffy. Fanfic!Buffy, the Buffy that could have been is complex, haunted, difficult and compelling. The Buffy that could grow and could reflect upon her actions and herself and, most importantly, learn to make efforts to actively CHANGE is a Buffy I can embrace. I can still care deeply for fanfic Buffy. Canon!Buffy, however... Well, if I discuss Season 6, 7, or TGIQ Buffy, I end up calling her names and seeing all the ways she's excused for things I don't excuse. I know it's not fair. I know I forgive other characters for their mistakes. But, I don't forgive CanonBuffy for so many reasons.
I love the Buffy who could be created from Buffy's raw material. I dislike the Buffy that ME perpetuated. I love fanfic Buffy... Joss and Marti's? Not so much.
Characters I don't give a rats ass about
Kennedy No reason to give a damn about the character.
Warren No redeeming quality to the character.
Justine ditto
Eve ditto
Riley Riley has redeeming qualities. He has his flaws, but all in all, not really big issues with Riley as a character. Well, no issue other than he puts me to sleep. I just don't care one way or another about him.