Love Jason Time!

[shiny_glor_chan]

So, I was talking to callarkhamquick about Fabian Nicieza taking over the Red Robin title, and that's a man I liked writing Jason. The few issues at the of the Robin series with Jason in them were lovely, and it'd be very fitting for the original owner of this Red Robin suit/identity show up

Comments

[wierdbot]

See, the thing about DC (that I hatehatehatehate) is that they take themselves waaay too seriously. They have a lot of recurring themes that they keep chucking back out at the readers every few years and, quite frankly, it's getting old. Like, waaay old. (E.g. The multiverse crisis things as an excuse for retcons, the age old 'Oh no, so-and-so killed someone! THEY ARE THE EVILEST THING THAT WAS EVER EVIL! EVER! LET'S FORGET OUR PAST RELATIONSHIPS WITH SO-AND-SO AND VILLAINISE THEM BEYOND ALL RECOGNITION!' and there is of course the wonderful 'Hmm, this character's life doesn't seem too screwy. Let's kill off a member of their family!' plotline...) There's also this thing DC does- where all their main characters have to have the moral high-ground (and also be unhappy or something IDK)- it's like they're afraid Fredrick Wertham is going to rise from the grave and start hurling copies of Seduction of the Innocent at them or something.

Which, in my opinion, is ridiculous, because as you said; the Batman line has so much room for a grey area. I mean, isn't Batman himself one great big grey area? The man intentionally dresses up in a scary costume and terrifies the bad guys while giving them the beating of their lives? *silent rage/incoherent hand flailing* You're going to give that man an utterly ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude?

Maybe I got it wrong, but they way I understood it is that the reason Batman's so uptight about other people in his city is because he doesn't want other people doing what he does (which is hurting people. A lot) without fully understanding the responsibilities and that what makes (made?) him so great as a character was his capacity for compassion and the fact that he cares about everyone he saves/isn't able to save.

SO, linking this back to Jason's characterisation and the way he is written in relation to other characters, you'd think that maybe Batman would make more of an effort to reach out and try to save him. I mean, the guy almost betrayed his own sense of honour and was this close to killing the Joker for what he did to Jason; I don't think anyone with Batman-levels of determination would just resign themselves of all responsibility when the boy they were willing to kill for comes back from the dead (not quite right in the head), crying out for attention as Jason did in Under the Hood (because if Under The Hood wasn't Jason's way of saying: 'NOTICE ME! NOTICE ME! I'M BEING BAAAD!' then I don't know what else would qualify).

Ugh. Bottom line: DC is sanctimonious and also sucks the balls of icky creatures, if anyone needs me I'll be blowing my money in the Marvel aisle.

[porntestpilot]

'Oh no, so-and-so killed someone! THEY ARE THE EVILEST THING THAT WAS EVER EVIL! EVER!

AUGH. WHY? Marc seems to be the only person who was able to get around that and as soon as Manhunter was in other books it was immediately mentioned with BC calling her a murderer like BC wasn't in front of a house full of people who have all killed at some point or another. So tired.

Maybe I got it wrong, but they way I understood it is that the reason Batman's so uptight about other people in his city is because he doesn't want other people doing what he does (which is hurting people. A lot) without fully understanding the responsibilities and that what makes (made?) him so great as a character was his capacity for compassion and the fact that he cares about everyone he saves/isn't able to save.

They tossed that all out with Damian. I know Dick made him Robin in attempt to teach him these things, but as a larger issue letting him do these things at all tossed out all claims to this idea. The Bat family is basically dead now - they might as well give it up and switch to the Mr. Todd method.

Also, in a larger sense, Jason kills rapists and shit, am I supposed to be sad about this? I'm not.

[shiny_glor_chan]

Also, in a larger sense, Jason kills rapists and shit, am I supposed to be sad about this? I'm not.

They bitch and bitch about the no kill rule, but they forget about three women in their Batfamily that would kill if needed (Helena and both Kates). And Dick's killed the Joker in the past. Whatever. Hypocrisy, meh.

[porntestpilot]

I don't even understand how that was supposed to be set up - Kate Spencer didn't stop killing people at any point that I am aware. I don't know as much about Kate Kane - but yeah, she killed one or two people right? And Renee has killed more than a few people. I miss when Helena used to whack Mobsters. I think Batman made her less. [Also: Selina Kyle too - she shot Black Mask not that Batman cared.]

I thought the issue with Jason was supposed to be he kills a little too much and needs to reign it in to people who actually need to be put down. Which is what they need to focus on - defying who those people are - and using Jason as their weapon of last resort. I know that would require them to get over themselves and admit that needs to happen, but I always thought Jason killing all those people was because Batman always went on his don't kill at all because then you'll kill everyone because they will all end up deserving it - which meant that once Jason moved past Batman's crap, he didn't know when to stop.

And as I said, Jason kills rapists, and people who kidnap little girls, and high level drug dealers and stuff. /hands/ I love Jason because he seems to be one of the only male characters who actually gives a shit about females and steps in to make it safer for them. Maybe I'm wrong in how I feel about Jason in that regard, but idk, that's what I think. And he was one of the few male mainstream characters willing to do what was primarily a female hero thing in DC: killing bad guys. A lot of the guys seem to stand about whining about moral superiority while Wonder Woman, and the like actually step up.

Mia was the one who put the arrow through that guy who set off the demons in Star City. Kate Spencer took down the dick that killed FireStorm, Cissie was ready to do it, and smart enough to know she needed to stop when she felt she wanted too, but shouldn't. I'm not trying to be all, males suck here - just you know, why I think Jason is more unique among the characters and how it seems to be the more coded female characters [like Guy Gardner] who are willing to kill people.

Eh. I miss Jason.

[shiny_glor_chan]

*applauds this whole rant and agrees, fully*

[schizoauthoress]

I love Jason because he seems to be one of the only male characters who actually gives a shit about females and steps in to make it safer for them. Maybe I'm wrong in how I feel about Jason in that regard, but idk, that's what I think.

You're not wrong. Two words: Gloria Stanson (from the storyline "The Diplomat's Son", the one with Felipe Garzonas). Or the "murdered women in dumpsters" case before that. Both of those cases affected Jason deeply.

I can't recall the issue or anything, but there's a scene where he takes Cass to Jason's grave, on the day when Jason "would have been eighteen" and I think he mentions Jason's concern for the victims of crime.

See, that's the thing... rather than going "all killing is bad; killers are always PURE EVIL", I wish DC would recognize that motivation can play a big part in whether an act of killing is evil or necessary/justified. Jason is motivated to fight crime because he grew up seeing the effect of crime and poverty on his family and everyone around him. He decided (rightly or wrongly) that Batman's methods were not successful enough and stepped up from "intimidation and serious injury as reprisals for crime" to "kill those preying on women and children". The motivation is still the same, it's just that the methods have changed.

As you said, defining limits for Jason would be much better than tossing him in the same category as the Rogue's Gallery.

[shiny_glor_chan]

They really do. :/ And all the recurring themes are stupid. D:

And of Jason, there're SO many character on the 'white hat' side that have killed, even within the Bats. Hell, Dick killed the Joker, though everyone forgets that. Helena would kill and so would Kate Spencer. Batwoman is a military type, so she wouldn't be above ditching the no kill rule when things get way outta control.

...I guess MEN aren't allowed to kill and still be good guys, huh? Oh wow, this is the first time I've noticed sexism the other way around in comics. What?

[wierdbot]

OMFG. WHATISTHISIDIDN'TEVENNOTICEIT. Oh, DC, you are the douchebag of all comic publishers.

[shiny_glor_chan]

At least their sexism goes BOTH ways? *sigh*

[porntestpilot]

Batwoman did kill someone who stabbed her.

I actually just went on about that above - oops sorry, I should have looked first.

[shiny_glor_chan]

Lol. Is okay. <3