Book discussion: Fire and Hemlock, Parts One and Two

[shimotsuki]

Here is the first of two discussion posts for Fire and Hemlock, by Diana Wynne Jones. It may be the case that we've all read the whole book already (I certainly found it hard to put down), but let's keep to the original plan and discuss only Part One ("New Hero") and Part Two ("Now Here") in this post so we don't accidentally spoil anyone who hasn

Comments

[gilpin25]

It really is hard to know where to start with this, and hard to know where to finish any comments without going into the second half of the book. By the time this first half ends I'd already come to the conclusion that I’d need to read it again, as it was baffling and captivating and making my head spin, in almost equal measure!

I did have moments of faint unease at the start, because of the age difference. Polly undoubtedly develops a crush on Mr Lynn - it helps that it's very clear she thinks of him as this way, and 'Tom' only creeps in later - and I usually heartily dislike any set-up which starts off as I watch you grow up and then...? Those odd prickles died away as things became clearer, but I may come back to this later. ;)

That initial unease does tie in with Ivy, leaving Polly with the unknown Mr Lynn after a cursory phone call. Which was one of her kinder acts, as it turned out. I was pinning my hopes on Reg stepping up to the plate at this point, as Polly already had one awful parent. I wanted to yell at them both when they were visibly bored watching Polly in the play (even worse when Ivy told her they were), and when she had no clean clothes to wear and couldn't remember when her hair had last been washed. Thank heavens for Granny.

The set-up I did love was the idea of looking at a photo and seeing/imagining different things when you did. Everyone, child or adult, must be able to relate to that. I also loved how the magical world blended so seamlessly into ours; I was never quite sure, like Polly, which was which at times, but it was on my second read that I noticed when she passed under a street light, or when colours became particularly vivid or glowed, that magic would follow. Shades of Narnia, perhaps, with the former. The atmosphere as well - katyhasclogs has already said this, but it’s a long time since I’ve been at school and also since I read something that encapsulates those days for me so perfectly. We whispered phrases like “broken home” back then, too.

Lots more things I enjoyed. The Superstition Club was one of my favourites, along with the teachers being driven nuts by it. Nina being Queen Bee, at least till she overreaches herself and discovers boys. Polly playing football to improve her hero skills and timing. Once Polly had got the rules straight - which took her a week, during which time she played on both sides together and scored fourteen own goals. LOL. Someone needs to explain the whole horse business to me at the end, please! I couldn’t work out how Tom and Polly were causing the magic in this half, though he was obviously beginning to suss it out and use Polly.

I’d read Tam Lin many years ago, and only remember the gist of it, but the quotes above the chapters tell their own tale. I'd never heard of Thomas the Rhymer. Knowing Eliot’s Four Quartets did help as I saw echoes of it throughout; by the end of this half Tom is creating his own musical quartet. (Nowhere and Now Here etc all tie into Four Quartets.) The essay the author’s written about her influences for this book makes interesting reading IF you have finished it. And also made me scratch my head a bit more!

[jobey_in_error]

but it was on my second read that I noticed when she passed under a street light, or when colours became particularly vivid or glowed, that magic would follow

That's really insightful.

The unease I felt for Polly was an interesting dimension too. I was pretty sure I knew where things were going with Mr. Lynn, and that we should trust him completely because he was obviously A Good, Nay, Even Perfect Sort of Person -- yet knowing this did not stop my horror that Polly's parents are so looney-tunes that no one seems to notice her spending all this time with a grown man no one knows, who likes to play pretend with her and drives like a maniac!

(Ivy and Reg were both infuriating. But sadly all too believable.)

So many enjoyable lines, yes -- I remember more clearly from the latter half of the book, as I have JUST finished, but wasn't there that great line in Part II where Ivy tells Polly she forgot to get a Christmas present for David? "Polly, who had never intended to get anything for David, pretended to be absorbed in opening her parcel..."

[shimotsuki]

knowing this did not stop my horror that Polly's parents are so looney-tunes that no one seems to notice her spending all this time with a grown man no one knows

Yes, indeed! *sigh* (I'm skirting spoiler territory a little here, and have been saving this point up for discussion in the second half, but) further information made me wonder if Granny wasn't quite as uninformed about the situation as everyone else was, and maybe it helped Ivy along to know that Granny already thought Mr. Lynn was all right -- but on the other hand, Ivy was just too glad to have somewhere to park Polly when she went to see the lawyer, wasn't she. :/

And even the motives I'm guessing Granny may have had don't really let her vouch for Mr. Lynn's actual moral character vis-a-vis letting him spend time alone with her own granddaughter. (Sorry, got a little carried away there, lol -- but it's both disturbing and intriguing.)

[shimotsuki]

I did have moments of faint unease at the start, because of the age difference. [...] Those odd prickles died away as things became clearer, but I may come back to this later. ;)

Yes, this is something I'm sitting on my hands about until the second discussion as well. ;) But the situation was more interesting, and less icky, than I had feared at first. Although I did have similar thoughts to you and jobey_in_error, being rather amazed that all those adults were willing to let Polly go off on her own with this man that no one knew anything about.

it was on my second read that I noticed when she passed under a street light, or when colours became particularly vivid or glowed, that magic would follow.

Ooh, that's really interesting, and I hadn't noticed this pattern at all. But that even fits in with the glimpse of water in the dry pool in the funeral scene, where a sunbeam first catches Polly's eye.

Polly playing football to improve her hero skills and timing.

Yes! I think it must have been a little bit heroic for her to throw herself into something she didn't know anything about, too.

I couldn’t work out how Tom and Polly were causing the magic in this half, though he was obviously beginning to suss it out and use Polly.

My thoughts exactly -- and even though some things do become clearer as we read on, I've still got lots of questions along these lines for when we get to the last half of the book. ;)

I’d read Tam Lin many years ago, and only remember the gist of it, but the quotes above the chapters tell their own tale.

I have a Steeleye Span recording of it, but I didn't know that was what it was, because I'm awful at making out lyrics when I'm listening to music, lol. But as soon as I saw "Carterhaugh" in one of those chapter headings, I realized where I knew the name from, and had to go give Steeleye Span another listen. (There's a certain element in the Janet/Tam Lin relationship that doesn't even begin to come up in DWJ's story, and it's a darn good thing, too, lol.)

The essay the author’s written about her influences for this book makes interesting reading IF you have finished it. And also made me scratch my head a bit more!

Ooh, interesting! Is that in your copy of the book, or did you find it online somewhere?

[gilpin25]

Oh, Steeleye Span! I shall have to search that out. They came and played near us last year at the folk festival, and we only saw it afterwards as we'd probably have made the effort to go.

Is that in your copy of the book, or did you find it online somewhere?

I found it online; scroll down to the bottom and you'll see the linked pages of the essay.

***SPOILERS AHEAD IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED READING!***

The Heroic Ideal

[shimotsuki]

Apparently Steeleye Span used an unusual musical setting for the ballad; something I read said they used three different Bulgarian folk tunes for it, because they found that there was an equivalent of the Tam Lin story in Bulgaria too. So I've been meaning to check out the Fairport Convention version, to compare. But the SS version is useful, because one of the places where the music changes is exactly at the point where [spoiler] tells [spoiler] to pay attention to "the charm". ;)

Thanks for the link to the essay! I will definitely have to check that out.