Book discussion: Fire and Hemlock, Parts One and Two

[shimotsuki]

Here is the first of two discussion posts for Fire and Hemlock, by Diana Wynne Jones. It may be the case that we've all read the whole book already (I certainly found it hard to put down), but let's keep to the original plan and discuss only Part One ("New Hero") and Part Two ("Now Here") in this post so we don't accidentally spoil anyone who hasn

Comments

[sspring92]

Tues the 13th could be better for me! Lots going on and have not been able to finish yet!

[shimotsuki]

Sure thing -- let's do it! Apparently we may need a few days for the first discussion post, anyway. ;) Everyone's busy -- and then all this Pottermore stuff is so distracting. (Although I'm happy to see it's getting people back on LJ for a little while.)

[sspring92]

I must admit I am being a wuss! It has been a few years since college when I would have been able to dissect this book all over the place! I am feeling a bit intimidated especially since I know many of our book clubbers are currently in academia either teaching or matriculating. So, I am really hoping someone else will get the ball rolling!

[katyhasclogs]

Please don't be intimidated! Honestly, I'm feeling a bit daunted and where-do-I start about this book and this is the fourth time I've read it. It's not just you!

I'll be back later with some thoughts, after work. :)

[shimotsuki]

Aw, don't feel intimidated! The idea here is just to have friends to read a book with -- we can talk about what we liked, or didn't like, or we can raise questions, or anything we want. My discussion points above weren't supposed to be homework ;) -- it was just some ideas for people to think about if they wanted to.

I didn't even really take any literature classes in college (except one bad one; let's not go there) -- so I'm even rustier than you on analyzing stories. It's been since high school for me!

I'm actually pretty confused by some aspects of the book, heh. But I really enjoyed reading it. So I'm looking forward to see what kinds of things everyone has to say about it -- maybe I'll get some of my questions cleared up? (or end up with more...)

[huldrejenta]

Eeep!
I'm so behind on reading this, I haven't finished Parts 1&2 yet. I hope (and think) I can find the time very soon, like tonight.

I'm all in favour of having the second post the 13th:)

[shimotsuki]

We'll definitely wait until the 13th for the second part -- no worries.

I may just have to read the book again! I have so many questions, heh.

[katyhasclogs]

It's hard to know where to start with this - I feel like the book is so complex, with so many layers, and I have so many questions and half-formed thoughts, that picking a place to begin seems rather overwhelming

[shimotsuki]

the sense of atmosphere

That really struck me, too. I think it was the strongest for me in the Hunsdon House funeral and garden sequence...but that may just be because as I went on reading I got caught up more and more in the story and started paying less attention to the mechanics of the writing. ;)

I would agree with your comments about the first chapter -- it didn't draw me in as deeply as the next chapter did, but I went back and looked at it again when I was much further into the book and was struck, as you were, by the little hints of things that were going to be important later.

"the penalty of being grown up is that you saw things like this photograph for what they really were"

*sits on hands to avoid making spoilery comment but* That is a very, very nice line indeed.

[sspring92]

"the penalty of being grown up is that you saw things like this photograph for what they really were". I love that line too! My grandmother used to have a painting of a sun dappled, wooded country lane that kind of headed off into the darkness. I used to stare at it for hours. I could imagine walking down it and finding a town at the end. But there was always something kind of sinister to me about the lighting, I always suspected that there was something lurking just off the road where the sunlight didn't hit. It was like Polly's painting. I'm sure if I looked at it now, as an adult my grandmother's painting wouldn't have the same effect.

[jobey_in_error]

As a 90s American kid, the childhood narrative felt extremely convincing and familiar to me too. Obviously certain details and institutions were different, but the school and home and how they intertwine for an eleven-year-old -- the reality was one of the many pleasures of the book for sure.

I was really unimpressed by the first chapter, to be honest. I only stuck with it because of our little reading group -- and I'm very glad I did -- but, yes, nineteen-year-old Polly looking at her picture did seem very humdrum. By design, I suppose.

[shimotsuki]

I'm having a tough time putting together comments for the first half of Fire and Hemlock, because I've now read the whole book (couldn't stop!), and almost everything I can think of to say about the first half is a question about how it relates to the second half, heh. There's a lot I haven't been able to figure out!

But at least I can start by saying that I really enjoyed the book, and that I definitely feel like I want to read it again to get a better understanding of what's going on. I've been checking out a few old legends, too, to get some more perspective on events in the book -- but I'll stop there about that for now so as not to get spoilery...

And here are two discussion points, for starters.

(1) The NOWHERE vases are clever and puzzling. I'd noticed, when I was looking up the novel's table of contents on Amazon before making our discussion schedule post, that all four parts had titles that were anagrams of the same letters -- New Hero, Now Here, Where Now? (with an extra W), Nowhere.Actually, I found that whole scene

[katyhasclogs]

The NOWHERE vases are clever and puzzling.

I'm glad you mentioned that, because I'd been meaning to ask what everyone makes of the nowhere vases.

I've tended to view them as a sort of metaphor/representation/example of the idea of 'nowhere' that crops up all through the book, but I do wonder if that's all they are. Like you say, Seb talks about "working" them, which makes it sound as if turning them has some effect (he also, in that sentence, makes a point of "you didn't eat anything and you didn't drink anything" - what's that about

[shimotsuki]

I do wonder if that's all they are.

Exactly! On a very concrete level, the vases represent how "nowhere" can turn into "here now", etc., and vice versa, just from a change in perspective, which is already cool. But Seb's comment, and the fact that Polly couldn't turn them, all make me wonder if they have some other kind of power as well.

Mr Lynn is described as, "like Samson ... getting ready to pull down the temple" when he's about to do the turning. Is that maybe more than just a visual description? In turning the vases is Mr Lynn pulling down (or beginning to pull down) something larger?

I was just rereading that part last night and wondering more or less the same thing, heh.

Another thought is that after turning them, Polly and Mr Lynn have their "it must be some kind of enchantment" conversation. Could the very act of them saying it's an enchantment, make it so, like with their other imaginings?

That's really a interesting point -- could be, definitely.

Likewise, with the exception of 'New Hero', don't all of the section