Things that make me go Hulk Smash (No Actual Avengers Content)

[shihadchick]

One of the things I've found the longer I am in fandom - especially the longer I'm in parcipatory fandoms and not just reading/watching things without interacting directly with others - is that my patience for offensive bullshit decreases by the second. And by orders of magnitude

Comments

[maudlinrose]

I think we did talk about Harriet No-Mates, yeah -- and I think, like, in good romance novels, Our Heroine DOES have female friends and they, like, hang out to paint their nails and talk about boys and/or drink shitty vodka and prank-call Those Who Have Wronged Them.

But part of dudeslash is that often there AREN'T a lot of women, so when the Evil Lady Ex is all evil, there's NO positive female character in the story at all, which compounds the problem - because, you know, there isn't spunky BFF Kitty with the spiky hair who gets written in to provide witty banter and the occasional kick in the pants, because in most fandoms that'd be OOC for the characters being written about.

Harriet No-Mates is driving me crazy at the moment; I borrowed a bunch of Mills & Boons from the library yesterday and they're just all - completely alien to my actual life, which is filled with bunches of people I talk to on a regular basis and get along with. And all Our Heroines are solitary tragic figures living in caravans and putting up with shitty employment conditions until their Greek billionaire can sweep them away to a life of haute couture and housekeeping staff.

/feelings

slashfic shares SO MANY tropes with romance novels; I think that's why the Harlequin challenges a few years ago were a) so successful, and b) pretty much indistinguishable from the usual output of fandom.

[shihadchick]

Hooray, I didn't misremember that! But yes, absolutely and exactly.

And yeah, that's such a huge part of why it both stands out all the more and makes me even more furious, because it's just like "...oh great, there's only one lady in this whole thing and I'm meant to loathe her? Thanks. :("

Oh good grief, yeah, that would be wicked frustrating. :( I'm so fucking sick of women being defined by their menfolk/potential menfolk. IT'S 2012 JFC.

Hee, yeah, too true. And I enjoy the fuck out of a lot of those things, I just wish we could all be more consistent about only uplifting the good parts and leave the shitty bits on the slush heap where they belong.

[maudlinrose]

But where would we all be without a man to tell us what he wants for dinner? I don't even know!

lksjflkajsdf it's super-frustrating because good romance stories are the most fun ever to read (other thing I find frustrating: fandom not really ACKNOWLEDGING how similar a lot of fic is to Books You'd Find In The Pink Aisle Of The Local Bookshop, at least in terms of storyline).

I think people could improve the situation by kind of - making an effort not to depict ex-girlfriends as terrible people (and I do find invisibility more comfortable than lady=eeeevil, though invisibility is a problem all of it's very own), OR by being less dismissive on the whole of original characters, which would allow at least marginally-sketched out ladies to get a little bit of innocuous screen-time. They don't even need to be spunky BFFs with spiky hair!

[shihadchick]

Definitely up a creek without a paddle, for sure! /sarcasm

So, so SO fucking true. And now this discussion is making me want to reread all my favourite Jennifer Crusies. LOL INEVITABLE.

And yes, absolutely agreed -- I guess it's also an element of the whole social pressure to Avoid Mary Sues At All Cost (which concept I've also got a lot more laidback about/unbothered by as time passes) which then backfires way too far because it turns into "just don't write female characters in case you're accused of GASP! Mary Sue-ing!" I don't know how successful I've been at it, but it's definitely a thing I've been trying to be way more conscious of myself over the past couple of years, for sure.

[maudlinrose]

Oh, Jennifer Crusie! :D has them all. Also, if you're at the library and feel like Mills & Boon, Kate Hardy is generally pretty good at presenting her female characters as well-rounded people with complex desires and a supportive network of friends and family (and presenting her male characters in much the same way). Sometimes her couples end up getting married and then NOT HAVING CHILDREN so they can focus on their careers!

I'm feeling more and more like the appropriate response to an accusation of Mary-Sue-ing is "So?" Because, like, people turn their male characters into much nicer/more successful/less douchy versions of their canon selves all the time, and that's treated as perfectly normal and acceptable by just about everyone (the market for lazy asshole douchecanoes being actually pretty small).

[shihadchick]

I've been less fond of some of her more recent books, but the majority of them are so greaat. And ooh, rec, thank you. I've also been told (but haven't had time to track any down to see for myself yet) that Julie James is quite good in the same regard? And hooray for people being allowed to be childfree by choice as well! I am definitely going to check that out.

And AMEN to that, yes, thoroughly agreed.

[maudlinrose]

I am most definitely going to check out Julie James then, I am ALWAYS in the market for romance novels where people have more than one positive relationship in their lives!

[labellementeuse]

Because, like, people turn their male characters into much nicer/more successful/less douchy versions of their canon selves all the time, and that's treated as perfectly normal and acceptable by just about everyone (the market for lazy asshole douchecanoes being actually pretty small).

BINGO.

[maudlinrose]

IDK why it's less believable for ladies to be superfantastico at everything all the time. Or even just, like, generally competent at life: especially given that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY FRIENDS is generally good at stuff. I don't know why people think it reads as out-of-place in a story.

(This is why Tamora Pierce is so awesome.)

[shihadchick]

Worlds of WORD OMG. Also, you guys are so great and I am glad we're friends. <3

(Yes.)

[maudlinrose]

<3 I ALSO AM GLAD. FRIENDSHIP FOR EVERYONE. :DDDDD