Questions About the Law
Anonymous said, in reply to my previous post about the Law titled "Experience the Difference": "This is what is usually taught, I understand and think I agree for the most part. But what do you think about the Law now? Do you think people will naturally follow it now with their transformed selves? If the law showed what is good and that we can't naturally keep it in the flesh, what about in the renewed state that comes about with the spirit in us?
Most people understand the law doesn't make us righteous but any discussion of keeping it BECAUSE we're righteous isn't really addressed. It always turns back to how it won't MAKE us righteous. Without doing that, what do you think? Do you think we'll keep it naturally? The part I can't really figure out is the sabbath and the feasts. They're shadows of things not yet available, do we keep it until the real thing arrives? Concerning the sabbath, that's the only one people refuse to keep now; that's what worries me. All the ten commandments are considered worth fighting to keep in public displays but people don't even believe in keeping them. Obviously the civil parts are not what we can control and the sacrifices were fulfilled by Yeshua. TLMinut http://tminsk.blogspot.com"
My reply:
No, people will not naturally obey the law (Romans 8:6-7), but yes the new creation in Messiah, the new man of the spirit, will be led by the Spirit and thus the Law of the Spirit of Life.
1Jn 5:18 MKJV We know that everyone who has been born of God does not continue to sin, but the one born of God guards himself, and the evil one does not touch him.
But before this John had said:
1Jn 1:8-10 MKJV If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (9) If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.
Which is it? Both. This is why.
Rom 7:16-25 AMP Now if I do [habitually] what is contrary to my desire, [that means that] I acknowledge and agree that the Law is good (morally excellent) and that I take sides with it. (17) However, it is no longer I who do the deed, but the sin [principle] which is at home in me and has possession of me. (18) For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. [I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out.] (19) For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do not desire to do are what I am [ever] doing. (20) Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it [it is not myself that acts], but the sin [principle] which dwells within me [fixed and operating in my soul]. (21) So I find it to be a law (rule of action of my being) that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I am subject to its insistent demands. (22) For I endorse and delight in the Law of God in my inmost self [with my new nature]. [Ps. 1:2.] (23) But I discern in my bodily members [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh]. (24) O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am! Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death? (25) O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord! So then indeed I, of myself with the mind and heart, serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
No believer born of the Spirit is living sinless in their flesh right now. I have met plenty who think they live more righteously than others, but usually that is based on religious delusion like we see in the Pharisees in Scripture. In reality they are no less sinners in their flesh than any other believer, because they haven't arrived at perfection, having their whole being in the exact likeness of Yahshua (Yeshua/Jesus). This is the standard of legalism, that one desiring to keep the law must live by:
Jas 2:10 MKJV For whoever shall keep the whole Law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
However, "Pharisees" deluded by self-righteous religious living based on "the law" usually don't recognize this about themselves. Though they have broken all of the Law just like everyone else, even this week, they still want to see themselves as law keepers while others not living as religiously devout to legal matters in the outward life are seen as law breakers. That is the opposite attitude we are to have if we are to receive God's mercy and grace.
And this in itself, that attitude of self-righteous living, is actually breaking the law. How? For one, the law says to judge with the same standard or measure for everyone. However, the "Pharisee" doesn't do so. He judges himself with one measure, and others he sees as less devout than himself with a different measure. He isn't perfect and thus has (and continues to) break the whole law, yet he sees others not as religiously legalistic as himself with a different measure of judgment.
I've been on both sides and have firsthand experience. I've been a believer, and known others, who ignore the teachings of Moses altogether, well, for the most part. I've also kept the letter of the Law of Moses to the "T" so to speak, at least the best we knew how by our interpretation of what we thought the law was saying to do or not to do. I found that neither is quite right. The former can lead to a lack of understanding concerning God and his plan for man, to a degree. The latter can lead to legalistic and judgmental behavior and attitudes that are not Christ-like.
And, of course, we've all played the hypocrite at least at some time.
It seems this subject causes a lot of confusion with believers, which is why I think Paul spent so much time trying to correct misunderstandings about this.
Here's a simple rule I think will help all new covenant believers avoid the confusion. Grace is supreme in the new covenant. So, when in doubt, always side with grace and mercy, and not with judgment and criticism from a legalistic standpoint. This is why:
Joh 1:17 MKJV For the Law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
There are two different orders and two different covenants. Reading Hebrews closely is a great idea to see the differences and the superiority of the new covenant.
Understand, the new man of the spirit is sinless. This part of our being, which is recreated in Messiah, is not what is sinning now in the outward life. It is the outward man, the old man, the flesh (carnality) in our members that is sinning and still rebellious to God. No matter how hard one tries to religiously curb this, it is only white-washing the tomb. It is not getting rid of the actual sin and death in the flesh. The flesh must die and be resurrected one day, which is a central truth of the gospel.
Sabbath
What about Sabbath keeping for new covenant believers? I personally believe it is a great idea to practice Sabbath observance. I also believe that neither of the two common days kept as a Sabbath are technically correct, but are out of line with the ancient Hebrew calendar. First, there was no Sunday through Saturday for ancient Hebrews, and absolutely no evidence from ancient times has been discovered to reveal such a calendar that is like our modern one, with the modern Sunday through Saturday week. So, the modern Jews have adapted their Sabbath keeping to the modern Roman calendar, as much as many would like to deny this provable fact. On the other hand, the first day of whatever week one believes is correct is not Sabbath, so the Christian churches have technically erred there.
However, in the new covenant it is not about the literal day so much as the principle of Sabbath, which is eternal, and found only in Messiah bringing us to right relationship with the Most High God. There may be a rest period (1000 years) coming later, but it is incorrect to say Sabbath is still a type and shadow for us of what is to come. That is partially true. In the old covenant Sabbath day each week was a type and shadow only, as they could not experience true, spiritual rest. They could only practice an outward religious rest. The new covenant believer, however, has access to the spiritual rest, which is the true rest of God. But, there is a more full coming of the covenant person entering that spiritual rest once we are done with this flesh and the adversaries and can dwell in spiritual rest forever without interruption (aka the concept of heaven).
Is keeping a literal day necessary for the new covenant believer to be living by the Law of the Spirit of Life in Messiah? No. Why? Because the eternal Sabbath has nothing to do with a literal and natural day on any calendar men keep on earth. Such observance is a type and shadow.
Is there value to keeping a literal day as a type and shadow each week to remind us of the true eternal Sabbath and to give our bodies and minds time to rest from our work? Absolutely. Believers who are not practicing a literal Sabbath day of rest each week are simply rejecting a great blessing they can have in this lifetime. Sabbath day each week is to be a blessed time we look forward to after a hard week of working and toiling on this earth, in whatever God has us doing. We need a day to just slow down, kick back, and have no concern about responsibilities of work. This allows us to recoup, reset, and be refreshed for another work week. It also gives us a whole day to focus only on God and his Word, to keep our life strongly centered on the Word, week after week. Yes, we should still have daily times of study, prayer, meditation, thanksgiving, and praise, but the Sabbath day we observe gives us a longer period of time once a week to really focus our time on God and his Word.
Devout Christians I know who are spirit-filled do this. Only the lukewarm Christians I know fail to keep Sunday as a day to focus on "the Lord." The devout Christians thus do keep a Sabbath day in line with the commandments. They will simply deny they do so legalistically to have anything to do with their own righteousness. They do it to honor "the Lord," and have a day to focus completely on worshiping and having fellowship with other believers, instead of working. It really matters not that they keep it on one day of the Roman calendar and the Jews, Seventh Day Adventists, and others keep it on a different day, on the same calendar. Technically, you can't keep the ancient way of the literal Sabbath day on that calendar at all, whether its seventh day or first day. But, in the new covenant, there is no place we see in Scripture where this is a problem. If it were of great consequence to new covenant believers to keep the ancient Hebrew Sabbath day or else, God would have had at least one of the apostles tell us in their inspired writings how to determine that day on the correct calendar.
None of them, inspired by the Holy Spirit, deemed it important enough to give any time to in their letters. The Holy Spirit foreknew later generations would come across confusion over which calendar is correct, and he still did not forewarn us through the writings of the apostles. This tells me very clearly that it was not of consequence with the new covenant having been established, as worship is no longer about the outward appearances or rituals.
Joh 4:23 A time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true (genuine) worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth (reality); for the Father is seeking just such people as these as His worshipers.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).
I don't agree with the "reality" add in done by the Amplified here, though many times the explanations they give to amplify the Scriptures to modern believers are good. Truth = the Word = Yahshua the Messiah (John 1). He said that he is the...truth...and no one goes to the Father but through him. This means to worship in the new covenant manner a person must accept him, whether gentile or Jew, or they can't worship in the new covenant way, the eternal way. Jews can still do outward rituals as acts of types and shadows, but they cannot worship in "truth." The other part is to worship in spirit. Only those born of the Spirit (John 3) can see the Kingdom and the Most High God over that Kingdom, and worship him before his throne in spirit. In addition to being made new creatures in spirit who can worship God in spirit, the new covenant believer can also partake in the blessed outpouring of the Holy Spirit just as the apostles and others experienced in the accounts, such as in the book of Acts. Whether Jew or gentile, a person must receive the new birth and be operating in the spirit filled with the Holy Spirit to worship in spirit.
So, having received Yahshua, and having received the Spirit, we can then worship in spirit and in truth. Once we have experienced this worship, outward ritual alone is just empty and meaningless and won't cut it. Outward religious worship that doesn't include the inner man worshipping in spirit and in truth is just dead works.
In conclusion, to reiterate, there is a benefit to keeping a literal Sabbath day for every new covenant believers. After all, our bodies and minds can certainly use the break and reset. It is more for us now and not worship of God, as we can worship in spirit and in truth anytime, anywhere. We don't need to take a Sabbath day to worship and we don't need to go to the Temple in Jerusalem. The literal day of rest is for our body and mind while the presence of the Spirit we enter when worshipping in spirit and in truth is the rest for our inner man, which is available 24/7/365. The old body and mind are going to die anyway, and need resurrected. Keeping this in mind helps put the importance of the literal Sabbath versus the spiritual Sabbath/rest into perspective. It is like how bodily exercise is good, but spiritual exercise is much better, because the one yields temporary results for this lifetime in the flesh, while the latter gives results that last for eternity.
Blessings and peace in Messiah,
David
Most people understand the law doesn't make us righteous but any discussion of keeping it BECAUSE we're righteous isn't really addressed. It always turns back to how it won't MAKE us righteous. Without doing that, what do you think? Do you think we'll keep it naturally? The part I can't really figure out is the sabbath and the feasts. They're shadows of things not yet available, do we keep it until the real thing arrives? Concerning the sabbath, that's the only one people refuse to keep now; that's what worries me. All the ten commandments are considered worth fighting to keep in public displays but people don't even believe in keeping them. Obviously the civil parts are not what we can control and the sacrifices were fulfilled by Yeshua. TLMinut http://tminsk.blogspot.com"
My reply:
No, people will not naturally obey the law (Romans 8:6-7), but yes the new creation in Messiah, the new man of the spirit, will be led by the Spirit and thus the Law of the Spirit of Life.
1Jn 5:18 MKJV We know that everyone who has been born of God does not continue to sin, but the one born of God guards himself, and the evil one does not touch him.
But before this John had said:
1Jn 1:8-10 MKJV If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (9) If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.
Which is it? Both. This is why.
Rom 7:16-25 AMP Now if I do [habitually] what is contrary to my desire, [that means that] I acknowledge and agree that the Law is good (morally excellent) and that I take sides with it. (17) However, it is no longer I who do the deed, but the sin [principle] which is at home in me and has possession of me. (18) For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. [I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out.] (19) For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do not desire to do are what I am [ever] doing. (20) Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it [it is not myself that acts], but the sin [principle] which dwells within me [fixed and operating in my soul]. (21) So I find it to be a law (rule of action of my being) that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I am subject to its insistent demands. (22) For I endorse and delight in the Law of God in my inmost self [with my new nature]. [Ps. 1:2.] (23) But I discern in my bodily members [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh]. (24) O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am! Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death? (25) O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord! So then indeed I, of myself with the mind and heart, serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
No believer born of the Spirit is living sinless in their flesh right now. I have met plenty who think they live more righteously than others, but usually that is based on religious delusion like we see in the Pharisees in Scripture. In reality they are no less sinners in their flesh than any other believer, because they haven't arrived at perfection, having their whole being in the exact likeness of Yahshua (Yeshua/Jesus). This is the standard of legalism, that one desiring to keep the law must live by:
Jas 2:10 MKJV For whoever shall keep the whole Law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
However, "Pharisees" deluded by self-righteous religious living based on "the law" usually don't recognize this about themselves. Though they have broken all of the Law just like everyone else, even this week, they still want to see themselves as law keepers while others not living as religiously devout to legal matters in the outward life are seen as law breakers. That is the opposite attitude we are to have if we are to receive God's mercy and grace.
And this in itself, that attitude of self-righteous living, is actually breaking the law. How? For one, the law says to judge with the same standard or measure for everyone. However, the "Pharisee" doesn't do so. He judges himself with one measure, and others he sees as less devout than himself with a different measure. He isn't perfect and thus has (and continues to) break the whole law, yet he sees others not as religiously legalistic as himself with a different measure of judgment.
I've been on both sides and have firsthand experience. I've been a believer, and known others, who ignore the teachings of Moses altogether, well, for the most part. I've also kept the letter of the Law of Moses to the "T" so to speak, at least the best we knew how by our interpretation of what we thought the law was saying to do or not to do. I found that neither is quite right. The former can lead to a lack of understanding concerning God and his plan for man, to a degree. The latter can lead to legalistic and judgmental behavior and attitudes that are not Christ-like.
And, of course, we've all played the hypocrite at least at some time.
It seems this subject causes a lot of confusion with believers, which is why I think Paul spent so much time trying to correct misunderstandings about this.
Here's a simple rule I think will help all new covenant believers avoid the confusion. Grace is supreme in the new covenant. So, when in doubt, always side with grace and mercy, and not with judgment and criticism from a legalistic standpoint. This is why:
Joh 1:17 MKJV For the Law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
There are two different orders and two different covenants. Reading Hebrews closely is a great idea to see the differences and the superiority of the new covenant.
Understand, the new man of the spirit is sinless. This part of our being, which is recreated in Messiah, is not what is sinning now in the outward life. It is the outward man, the old man, the flesh (carnality) in our members that is sinning and still rebellious to God. No matter how hard one tries to religiously curb this, it is only white-washing the tomb. It is not getting rid of the actual sin and death in the flesh. The flesh must die and be resurrected one day, which is a central truth of the gospel.
Sabbath
What about Sabbath keeping for new covenant believers? I personally believe it is a great idea to practice Sabbath observance. I also believe that neither of the two common days kept as a Sabbath are technically correct, but are out of line with the ancient Hebrew calendar. First, there was no Sunday through Saturday for ancient Hebrews, and absolutely no evidence from ancient times has been discovered to reveal such a calendar that is like our modern one, with the modern Sunday through Saturday week. So, the modern Jews have adapted their Sabbath keeping to the modern Roman calendar, as much as many would like to deny this provable fact. On the other hand, the first day of whatever week one believes is correct is not Sabbath, so the Christian churches have technically erred there.
However, in the new covenant it is not about the literal day so much as the principle of Sabbath, which is eternal, and found only in Messiah bringing us to right relationship with the Most High God. There may be a rest period (1000 years) coming later, but it is incorrect to say Sabbath is still a type and shadow for us of what is to come. That is partially true. In the old covenant Sabbath day each week was a type and shadow only, as they could not experience true, spiritual rest. They could only practice an outward religious rest. The new covenant believer, however, has access to the spiritual rest, which is the true rest of God. But, there is a more full coming of the covenant person entering that spiritual rest once we are done with this flesh and the adversaries and can dwell in spiritual rest forever without interruption (aka the concept of heaven).
Is keeping a literal day necessary for the new covenant believer to be living by the Law of the Spirit of Life in Messiah? No. Why? Because the eternal Sabbath has nothing to do with a literal and natural day on any calendar men keep on earth. Such observance is a type and shadow.
Is there value to keeping a literal day as a type and shadow each week to remind us of the true eternal Sabbath and to give our bodies and minds time to rest from our work? Absolutely. Believers who are not practicing a literal Sabbath day of rest each week are simply rejecting a great blessing they can have in this lifetime. Sabbath day each week is to be a blessed time we look forward to after a hard week of working and toiling on this earth, in whatever God has us doing. We need a day to just slow down, kick back, and have no concern about responsibilities of work. This allows us to recoup, reset, and be refreshed for another work week. It also gives us a whole day to focus only on God and his Word, to keep our life strongly centered on the Word, week after week. Yes, we should still have daily times of study, prayer, meditation, thanksgiving, and praise, but the Sabbath day we observe gives us a longer period of time once a week to really focus our time on God and his Word.
Devout Christians I know who are spirit-filled do this. Only the lukewarm Christians I know fail to keep Sunday as a day to focus on "the Lord." The devout Christians thus do keep a Sabbath day in line with the commandments. They will simply deny they do so legalistically to have anything to do with their own righteousness. They do it to honor "the Lord," and have a day to focus completely on worshiping and having fellowship with other believers, instead of working. It really matters not that they keep it on one day of the Roman calendar and the Jews, Seventh Day Adventists, and others keep it on a different day, on the same calendar. Technically, you can't keep the ancient way of the literal Sabbath day on that calendar at all, whether its seventh day or first day. But, in the new covenant, there is no place we see in Scripture where this is a problem. If it were of great consequence to new covenant believers to keep the ancient Hebrew Sabbath day or else, God would have had at least one of the apostles tell us in their inspired writings how to determine that day on the correct calendar.
None of them, inspired by the Holy Spirit, deemed it important enough to give any time to in their letters. The Holy Spirit foreknew later generations would come across confusion over which calendar is correct, and he still did not forewarn us through the writings of the apostles. This tells me very clearly that it was not of consequence with the new covenant having been established, as worship is no longer about the outward appearances or rituals.
Joh 4:23 A time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true (genuine) worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth (reality); for the Father is seeking just such people as these as His worshipers.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).
I don't agree with the "reality" add in done by the Amplified here, though many times the explanations they give to amplify the Scriptures to modern believers are good. Truth = the Word = Yahshua the Messiah (John 1). He said that he is the...truth...and no one goes to the Father but through him. This means to worship in the new covenant manner a person must accept him, whether gentile or Jew, or they can't worship in the new covenant way, the eternal way. Jews can still do outward rituals as acts of types and shadows, but they cannot worship in "truth." The other part is to worship in spirit. Only those born of the Spirit (John 3) can see the Kingdom and the Most High God over that Kingdom, and worship him before his throne in spirit. In addition to being made new creatures in spirit who can worship God in spirit, the new covenant believer can also partake in the blessed outpouring of the Holy Spirit just as the apostles and others experienced in the accounts, such as in the book of Acts. Whether Jew or gentile, a person must receive the new birth and be operating in the spirit filled with the Holy Spirit to worship in spirit.
So, having received Yahshua, and having received the Spirit, we can then worship in spirit and in truth. Once we have experienced this worship, outward ritual alone is just empty and meaningless and won't cut it. Outward religious worship that doesn't include the inner man worshipping in spirit and in truth is just dead works.
In conclusion, to reiterate, there is a benefit to keeping a literal Sabbath day for every new covenant believers. After all, our bodies and minds can certainly use the break and reset. It is more for us now and not worship of God, as we can worship in spirit and in truth anytime, anywhere. We don't need to take a Sabbath day to worship and we don't need to go to the Temple in Jerusalem. The literal day of rest is for our body and mind while the presence of the Spirit we enter when worshipping in spirit and in truth is the rest for our inner man, which is available 24/7/365. The old body and mind are going to die anyway, and need resurrected. Keeping this in mind helps put the importance of the literal Sabbath versus the spiritual Sabbath/rest into perspective. It is like how bodily exercise is good, but spiritual exercise is much better, because the one yields temporary results for this lifetime in the flesh, while the latter gives results that last for eternity.
Blessings and peace in Messiah,
David