i notr your pre-judgements re the " sorefulo heart and mind and comment and also th euse of the word " balls" id thast used from the pulpit too?
firstly whether i an jack the ripper or joe bloggs, you people have made up your minds to endore same sex realtionships and transposde it into a so calle dchurch. you ignore scripture which clearly states the bibles views on homosexulity and yet quote other scripture with wild abandon. Essentilly waht i am saying is that you have made up your minds to retain same sex relationships as a building block of your group.
Perhaps you ought to look at it another way, here someone who actually belives in what the bible says and who would like to see people who are being misled into beliving that it is possible to rationalise same sex realtionships with God's plan for our lives, trying to prevent those people moiving away from God under cover of a misconception that beccaus they praise and worship God is moving in their group.
Look you already acknowledge FCC is not growing, and put it down to other reasons other than the core values are misplaced.
I have no issue with people be the gay or not but i do have issue in the sense of it being against the biblical principles. I am not a person who hates gays, but i hate what they do and i feel God will never endorse this practise in a group which is supposedly seeking him.
Therer is too much defense by defending stances on homosexuality by woman being allowed to speak in church, its like saying i didn't commit murder but i did steal.
why have a pity part for yourselves, maybe some churches have acted against the person however it is up to that church to repenty for that. It is impossible to have core values which go against biblical values, a church will never grow like that.
You can still welcome gays if you teach them the biblical values on same sex realtionships etc, it is their choice if they want to believe that or continue to behave in the same way. Yout teaching must be biblically based on this issue not sympathy based.
How may I address you
anonymous
September 25 2006, 00:23:52 UTC
Dear Anonymous,
How may I best address you? Which part of SG do you stay?
FCC is not growing because it is neither cold nor hot! But thankfully, you are helping us by inadvertantly putting us to a position to declare strongly that the bible does not condemned homosexuality and being gay by itself is not a sin nor fallen. Thank you.
FCC is not growing because we have a GLBT community that is inherently abused and vilified by the Christian Church. Therefore, they are naturally adamant of Jesus and His gospel message. This is indeed sad and may God forgive you. The messengers should not add to the message and soil the Word of God and make it less than inspired. But you have made us dwell into God's word to declare it to the GLBT community. Thank you.
Because of you, FCC will grow. (Psa 7:6) Arise, O LORD, in Your anger; Lift Yourself up because of the rage of my enemies; Rise up for me to the judgment You have commanded!
Re: How may I address you
anonymous
September 25 2006, 15:12:21 UTC
Well it is not to me you answer on this topic it is God and to god alone so you are gambling wiht the words and intent of the bible but worse still you are actively encouraging others to do so too.
so the passage in Leviticus 18:22 " you shall not lie with a male as with a woman it is an abomination", does not exist in your bible, is that the page you have underlined and torn out as it conflicts with your desires? well if it is you better tear some more pages out, as the bible is full of explanation of its intention in sexual immorality.
You can challenge me in stuborness but FCC will need to answer to God and not me, it will neither be sucessful or fail becaus eof me but it will be based upon its foundations in the lord.
No amount of silvery tonged articles that purport to challenge Gods word will prevail against him, that is something you will need to think about carfully, you are chalenging God not me.
Re: How may I address you
anonymous
September 25 2006, 17:52:03 UTC
Cowardice does indeed prevail widely in cyberspace where people can throw brickbats and hide behind the mask of anonymity. As Shakespeare so eloquently put it in The Merchant of Venice, "The devil can site scripture for his own purpose! An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villain with a smiling cheek".
Let me also explain to you Mr Anonymous why you too are condemned and answerable to God one day since you too are challenging Him: Leviticus 19:16 - "Don't gossip. Don't falsely accuse your neighbour of some crime" Leviticus 19:19 - "Don't wear clothes made of half wool and half linen" Leviticus 19:26 - "Don't eat meat with undrained blood; nor use fortune telling, or witchcraft" - This refers to horoscope reading as well. Leviticus 19:27 - "You must not trim off your hair on your temples or clip the edges of your beard" And the list goes on and on.... I dare you to tell me that you've not done any of the above!
My point is, if you have half a brain and at least the IQ of a sheep, you would have realised by now that a lot of what is written in Leviticus had a particular social and cultural context which is no longer relevant today. Honestly, your ignorance does not impress me. I don't see you condemning people who wear "half wool and half linen" since it is so clearly spelt out as well in the same passage that it is forbidden. Neither do I see you telling off farmers what is said in Leviticus 19:9 about "not reaping the corners of your field, and don't pick up stray grains of wheat from the ground." So I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not a complete imbecile and that you do in fact practice some form of intellectual discernment. So my question to you is this: why do you choose only to focus on the part which mentions about homosexuality?? What is it about gay/lesbian people that irks you so much that you feel the need to put us down so vehemently?? Is it because we're from different from you and therefore you treat us like a foreign language, not capable of understanding? Of is it because you have insecurities about your own sexual orientation and hence you feel the need to suppress others? If you are as self righteous as you proclaim to be, you would have taken issue with everything else that is written in Leviticus, or else it would have been almost hypocritical of you, wouldn't it? Or did you by some chance rationalise to yourself that "hey, some things that were written back then are no longer applicable in today's context". I'm sure that must have crossed your mind. Therefore, you need to take a honest look and understand and explore within your own psyche and your attitudes towards homosexuals and what is driving this contempt. You can't just choose to select any biblical phrase at your pleasure and condemn a fellow Christian, it's blasphemy and bigotry and God is definitely not pleased at your actions. As it is once again said in Leviticus 19:18 "Don't seek vengeance. Don't bear a grudge; but love your neighbour as yourself".
Mr Anonymous, you have not been to FCC, and you do not know of the glorious works and miracles he has worked into the lives of many of us who go there. I am one living example of how I got closer to God and learning about Him after attending FCC. FCC is certainly not a "gay sympathiser's club", it is a living church with Jesus Christ at the centre. Why don't you come one day and witness it for yourself? I promise you that we're not scary and we don't bite. :)
Re: How may I address you
anonymous
September 26 2006, 10:09:12 UTC
As expected, asnyone who dare tread on gay territory is faced with replies in keeping with your tenor and level of politness.
Even if you are prepared to dismiss Leviticus there are many other areas in the bible and the intent of the bible is clear that homosexuality is an abomination to God. However, any biblical passages are dismissed by gays as being not relevent or outdated or as i mentioned some silvery tonged gay liturist will word craft articles to convince people against God's wishes ansd intent.
You may well have come far in FCC but how much further do you want to go knowing the biblical truths and actually being used by God foer the purpose he intended for you.
What if Adulterers took your view, are they able to hide behind this by saying that it lno longer applies today?
why is it that a same sex couple cannot naturaly reproduce? why did God not allow them to reproduce?
If you feel Leviticus is not relevent then you could go through the bible and belive only the things you want to belive, is that what God intended selective, sympathetic christianity?
As i said, it is not me you need to convince it is God.
There is a lot of mans strength in FCC it wil not sustain as its foundatrions do not have biblical basis. It will, fail and people, like yourself will be left in a vaccum as instead of a biblical based chuerched you have been atending a selective, sypathisers club.
firstly whether i an jack the ripper or joe bloggs, you people have made up your minds to endore same sex realtionships and transposde it into a so calle dchurch. you ignore scripture which clearly states the bibles views on homosexulity and yet quote other scripture with wild abandon. Essentilly waht i am saying is that you have made up your minds to retain same sex relationships as a building block of your group.
Perhaps you ought to look at it another way, here someone who actually belives in what the bible says and who would like to see people who are being misled into beliving that it is possible to rationalise same sex realtionships with God's plan for our lives, trying to prevent those people moiving away from God under cover of a misconception that beccaus they praise and worship God is moving in their group.
Look you already acknowledge FCC is not growing, and put it down to other reasons other than the core values are misplaced.
I have no issue with people be the gay or not but i do have issue in the sense of it being against the biblical principles. I am not a person who hates gays, but i hate what they do and i feel God will never endorse this practise in a group which is supposedly seeking him.
Therer is too much defense by defending stances on homosexuality by woman being allowed to speak in church, its like saying i didn't commit murder but i did steal.
why have a pity part for yourselves, maybe some churches have acted against the person however it is up to that church to repenty for that. It is impossible to have core values which go against biblical values, a church will never grow like that.
You can still welcome gays if you teach them the biblical values on same sex realtionships etc, it is their choice if they want to believe that or continue to behave in the same way. Yout teaching must be biblically based on this issue not sympathy based.
Reply
How may I best address you? Which part of SG do you stay?
FCC is not growing because it is neither cold nor hot! But thankfully, you are helping us by inadvertantly putting us to a position to declare strongly that the bible does not condemned homosexuality and being gay by itself is not a sin nor fallen. Thank you.
FCC is not growing because we have a GLBT community that is inherently abused and vilified by the Christian Church. Therefore, they are naturally adamant of Jesus and His gospel message. This is indeed sad and may God forgive you. The messengers should not add to the message and soil the Word of God and make it less than inspired. But you have made us dwell into God's word to declare it to the GLBT community. Thank you.
Because of you, FCC will grow. (Psa 7:6) Arise, O LORD, in Your anger; Lift Yourself up because of the rage of my enemies; Rise up for me to the judgment You have commanded!
Thank you and God bless.
Sweet Lamb
www.psa91.com
Reply
so the passage in Leviticus 18:22 " you shall not lie with a male as with a woman it is an abomination", does not exist in your bible, is that the page you have underlined and torn out as it conflicts with your desires? well if it is you better tear some more pages out, as the bible is full of explanation of its intention in sexual immorality.
You can challenge me in stuborness but FCC will need to answer to God and not me, it will neither be sucessful or fail becaus eof me but it will be based upon its foundations in the lord.
No amount of silvery tonged articles that purport to challenge Gods word will prevail against him, that is something you will need to think about carfully, you are chalenging God not me.
Reply
Let me also explain to you Mr Anonymous why you too are condemned and answerable to God one day since you too are challenging Him:
Leviticus 19:16 - "Don't gossip. Don't falsely accuse your neighbour of some crime"
Leviticus 19:19 - "Don't wear clothes made of half wool and half linen"
Leviticus 19:26 - "Don't eat meat with undrained blood; nor use fortune telling, or witchcraft" - This refers to horoscope reading as well.
Leviticus 19:27 - "You must not trim off your hair on your temples or clip the edges of your beard"
And the list goes on and on.... I dare you to tell me that you've not done any of the above!
My point is, if you have half a brain and at least the IQ of a sheep, you would have realised by now that a lot of what is written in Leviticus had a particular social and cultural context which is no longer relevant today. Honestly, your ignorance does not impress me. I don't see you condemning people who wear "half wool and half linen" since it is so clearly spelt out as well in the same passage that it is forbidden. Neither do I see you telling off farmers what is said in Leviticus 19:9 about "not reaping the corners of your field, and don't pick up stray grains of wheat from the ground." So I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not a complete imbecile and that you do in fact practice some form of intellectual discernment. So my question to you is this: why do you choose only to focus on the part which mentions about homosexuality?? What is it about gay/lesbian people that irks you so much that you feel the need to put us down so vehemently?? Is it because we're from different from you and therefore you treat us like a foreign language, not capable of understanding? Of is it because you have insecurities about your own sexual orientation and hence you feel the need to suppress others? If you are as self righteous as you proclaim to be, you would have taken issue with everything else that is written in Leviticus, or else it would have been almost hypocritical of you, wouldn't it? Or did you by some chance rationalise to yourself that "hey, some things that were written back then are no longer applicable in today's context". I'm sure that must have crossed your mind. Therefore, you need to take a honest look and understand and explore within your own psyche and your attitudes towards homosexuals and what is driving this contempt. You can't just choose to select any biblical phrase at your pleasure and condemn a fellow Christian, it's blasphemy and bigotry and God is definitely not pleased at your actions. As it is once again said in Leviticus 19:18 "Don't seek vengeance. Don't bear a grudge; but love your neighbour as yourself".
Mr Anonymous, you have not been to FCC, and you do not know of the glorious works and miracles he has worked into the lives of many of us who go there. I am one living example of how I got closer to God and learning about Him after attending FCC. FCC is certainly not a "gay sympathiser's club", it is a living church with Jesus Christ at the centre. Why don't you come one day and witness it for yourself? I promise you that we're not scary and we don't bite. :)
Michael
Reply
Even if you are prepared to dismiss Leviticus there are many other areas in the bible and the intent of the bible is clear that homosexuality is an abomination to God. However, any biblical passages are dismissed by gays as being not relevent or outdated or as i mentioned some silvery tonged gay liturist will word craft articles to convince people against God's wishes ansd intent.
You may well have come far in FCC but how much further do you want to go knowing the biblical truths and actually being used by God foer the purpose he intended for you.
What if Adulterers took your view, are they able to hide behind this by saying that it lno longer applies today?
why is it that a same sex couple cannot naturaly reproduce? why did God not allow them to reproduce?
If you feel Leviticus is not relevent then you could go through the bible and belive only the things you want to belive, is that what God intended selective, sympathetic christianity?
As i said, it is not me you need to convince it is God.
There is a lot of mans strength in FCC it wil not sustain as its foundatrions do not have biblical basis. It will, fail and people, like yourself will be left in a vaccum as instead of a biblical based chuerched you have been atending a selective, sypathisers club.
Reply
Leave a comment