America is, has been, and will continue to be full of Muslims, not just immigrants, but born here, and native convers...
Islam is an ancient religion with many factions, and faces....just like its sister religions, judeism, and christianity - remember they all pray to the *same* fucking god, they just disagree about chapters, Messiah's and tenants
personally i think their all fairy tales...but that doesn't prevent me from understanding and acknowledging that their are wise and peaceful leaders and practitioners of all three...
just as their are and have been, and continue to be irrational, dangerous extremists - in ALL THREE... all three have been used by greedy, ambitions, narcissistic violent men to lure and corrupt weaker men, and to inspire and excuse some of the worst and most vile events in human history... morover these narcissistic, megalomaniacs will always be the loudest and easiest to hear....
but the fundamental tenants and teachings of all three have also be the context and medium of some of the wisest and benevolent sages and leaders in our shared history, and have fostered peace for millions of people and communities world and history wide.
i have no love of al quaeda. i see no reason to let any of them live long enough to see the inside of a detention center or trial... but to depict the entirety of an old, and global faith, by the flaws of one extreme and evil clique is both unfair, slanderous and makes you look like an ignorant fool. Frankly ts pretty much the text book definition of bigotry
would you liken Mother Teresa, or Dr. MLK to the exploits of the crusades, inquisition, spanish conquistadors or the KKK?
and that is, frankly, in defense of teachings i fundamentally disbelieve... lets talk about something i do believe in: The teachings of the U.S. constitution. Now i will caviot that America indulges in a lot if its own mythology, The myth of the benevolent world leader, the myth of innocence, the myth of class freedom and upward mobility, of complete personal freedom... and others that obscure the harsh reality, and bloody colonial / imperial history of america, its hypocrisy, its greed, its orwellian machination but their are few things that do *unabashedly* make The United States of America Great. The Freedom of Expression The Freedom of Religion (and when its practiced) The separation of Church and State.
in case you missed it or forgot, the way this works... we don't judge people by what or who they are. We judge people by what they do. Not what we think, or fear they'll do... by what they actually do (particularly what is provable in a court of law) If you participate in honor killings we will imprison you not because your muslim or christian but because you committed homicide.
Re: a reply to your last three postsshatter707September 16 2010, 01:42:31 UTC
MLK No, MOther Teresa, Yes.
It's funny how anytime religion is brought up the only counter people can bring up is the Crusades (a retaliation against Islamic expansion, no different than our war against Al Quada) and The Inquisition, both of which were perpetrated by the Catholic Church.
You claim there are plenty of extremists on all sides.
Name any Jewish or Christian Extremists in the past 100 years (just to make it easy) that have done 1/10000th of the atrocities that have been perpetrated by Islam.
Jewish suicide bombers? Christian Honor killings? Bombing of airplanes, buildings, churches, and within the last year attempt on Times Square.
Mind you, I'm not talking about foreign invaders, I'm talking about peopel living here in this country, our so called citizens.
I agree with you on Church and State. It's that very notation that I find so interesting, because of late, our State has gone above and beyond to not only align itself with Islam, but to pander to it. I'm not talking abroad, I'm talking right here within our own boarder.
If you speak out against Christianity or the Jews, its' freedom of speech, so something bad about Islam and it's Islamiphobioa and oppression against their freedom of religion.
Never mind that of the 3 you have named, Islam is without a doubt the LEAST tolerant religion on the planet. Their Dogma is akin to that group which you mentioned, the KKK (which, isn't a religion, but you brought it up.)
The above questions are now out of line. They are posed to the "peace loving" and "moderate" Muslims who as you say, have lived here for a long time and are wonderful Americans.
If they look the other way against the crimes of extremists, then they are as guilty as anyone else of turning a blind eye. It's their community, their religion. They have a moral if not social obligation to police themselves.... if they refuse, then don't complain when somebody else polices them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/nyregion/11religion.html?_r=1
America is, has been, and will continue to be full of Muslims, not just immigrants, but born here, and native convers...
Islam is an ancient religion with many factions, and faces....just like its sister religions, judeism, and christianity - remember they all pray to the *same* fucking god, they just disagree about chapters, Messiah's and tenants
personally i think their all fairy tales...but that doesn't prevent me from understanding and acknowledging that their are wise and peaceful leaders and practitioners of all three...
just as their are and have been, and continue to be irrational, dangerous extremists - in ALL THREE... all three have been used by greedy, ambitions, narcissistic violent men to lure and corrupt weaker men, and to inspire and excuse some of the worst and most vile events in human history... morover these narcissistic, megalomaniacs will always be the loudest and easiest to hear....
but the fundamental tenants and teachings of all three have also be the context and medium of some of the wisest and benevolent sages and leaders in our shared history, and have fostered peace for millions of people and communities world and history wide.
i have no love of al quaeda. i see no reason to let any of them live long enough to see the inside of a detention center or trial... but to depict the entirety of an old, and global faith, by the flaws of one extreme and evil clique is both unfair, slanderous and makes you look like an ignorant fool. Frankly ts pretty much the text book definition of bigotry
would you liken Mother Teresa, or Dr. MLK to the exploits of the crusades, inquisition, spanish conquistadors or the KKK?
and that is, frankly, in defense of teachings i fundamentally disbelieve...
lets talk about something i do believe in:
The teachings of the U.S. constitution.
Now i will caviot that America indulges in a lot if its own mythology, The myth of the benevolent world leader, the myth of innocence, the myth of class freedom and upward mobility, of complete personal freedom... and others that obscure the harsh reality, and bloody colonial / imperial history of america, its hypocrisy, its greed, its orwellian machination
but their are few things that do *unabashedly* make The United States of America Great.
The Freedom of Expression
The Freedom of Religion
(and when its practiced) The separation of Church and State.
in case you missed it or forgot, the way this works...
we don't judge people by what or who they are.
We judge people by what they do.
Not what we think, or fear they'll do... by what they actually do (particularly what is provable in a court of law)
If you participate in honor killings we will imprison you not because your muslim or christian but because you committed homicide.
Reply
It's funny how anytime religion is brought up the only counter people can bring up is the Crusades (a retaliation against Islamic expansion, no different than our war against Al Quada) and The Inquisition, both of which were perpetrated by the Catholic Church.
You claim there are plenty of extremists on all sides.
Name any Jewish or Christian Extremists in the past 100 years (just to make it easy) that have done 1/10000th of the atrocities that have been perpetrated by Islam.
Jewish suicide bombers?
Christian Honor killings?
Bombing of airplanes, buildings, churches, and within the last year attempt on Times Square.
Mind you, I'm not talking about foreign invaders, I'm talking about peopel living here in this country, our so called citizens.
I agree with you on Church and State. It's that very notation that I find so interesting, because of late, our State has gone above and beyond to not only align itself with Islam, but to pander to it. I'm not talking abroad, I'm talking right here within our own boarder.
If you speak out against Christianity or the Jews, its' freedom of speech, so something bad about Islam and it's Islamiphobioa and oppression against their freedom of religion.
Never mind that of the 3 you have named, Islam is without a doubt the LEAST tolerant religion on the planet. Their Dogma is akin to that group which you mentioned, the KKK (which, isn't a religion, but you brought it up.)
The above questions are now out of line. They are posed to the "peace loving" and "moderate" Muslims who as you say, have lived here for a long time and are wonderful Americans.
If they look the other way against the crimes of extremists, then they are as guilty as anyone else of turning a blind eye. It's their community, their religion. They have a moral if not social obligation to police themselves.... if they refuse, then don't complain when somebody else polices them.
--S
Reply
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