2) Like Johnlock, especially in Sherlock, has so many parallels that it's absolutely nuts. Like yes, there's jealousy, and yes they have fights and UST. But they need each other so badly, they're constantly mistaken for being a couple, especially by people that are into them. One has a scar and a hero complex, the other has brains and their heart is in the right place but people only see the ruthlessness. Like both Sherlock and Hermione has that very brusque manner. They're constantly saving each other, and their touches are so charged. There's a lot of subtextual support with lots of symbolism. I'm basically back in pre-HBP Harmony hell, except now it's 100 % gay hell.
But people think the H/Hr-comparison is Sherlolly (Sherlock/Molly (an OC created for the series)) because het or something. Like H/Hr-shippers going "she's supportive like Hermione" and I'm just thinking "no, she's doormat like HBP-Ginny". Hermione stands up to Harry, and has a clear set of moral values, and is first and foremost his close friend. (Yes, this means we mix it up with John being the Hermione, but it's a ship comparison not a character one.) Molly is mostly pining in the background, and when she gets and then breaks up with her boyfriend then we get the whole "I'm so tough and feminist towards my (former?) crush" and slaps him in the face. Which, yeah, sounds familiar?
Speaking of H/G-similar couples being mistaken for H/Hr-similar, heard of the show Arrow? The way people speak of Olicity it sounds like it'd be an interesting couple, right until you actually watch the show and just want the pain to end. Like she's pining, never actually gets to know him, is stuck worshiping this image she has of him, which is just so unhealthy. And when they get together, it is strongly tainted by him giving up his responsibilities, so the relationship is clearly making him out at his worst (and this character was already the worst, especially at being a hero.)
What HP pairing have you found? Fair warning, I'll probably zone out if it's Nev/Luna, because they're my "bread-on-bread"-ship of HP. That is a term I recently came up with for those pairings that are super popular in a fandom, and while you don't hate it you don't really get it either. Like, no real interaction, no real hint of attraction or anything, it's just bread on bread. I mean, you can eat it, but there is a plate full of sandwiches right over there. Really no offense meant if it was Nev/Luna you had in mind, just how I feel.
Hmm, it sounds like H/Hr with R/Hr fighting mixed in with it. Without seeing it, I don't think I can be certain, but that's what it sounds like. I guess when people see characters fighting, it's automatically R/Hr to them. I see that a lot (very annoying, too). I like to look at the whole pairing, see the personalities of the characters and, if the fighting is helpful, then it's okay. Sometimes, fighting can be good for a couple if it's done right. Of course, it wasn't done right in R/Hr, that was a gimmick for them, I guess, icing, not the cake. Rowling had them fight for the sake of fighting instead of turning those fights into character-driven moments and allowing R/Hr to grow from them. But maybe that's what has put off H/Hr shippers if they're going to Sherlock/Molly? They see the fighting and see R/Hr. Because Molly does sound like Ginny in the way you've described it.
I've heard of Arrow, but never watched it. That does sound like H/G, too. What is with the obsession with H/G like pairings?
Well, I guess this is a bread-on-bread ship because it has little basis in the books. One of the characters doesn't even appear in the books, just mentioned. It's Sirius Black/Marlene McKinnon. I ran into it one day (can't remember where) and now I'm hooked on to it. I've seen it said that some people ship it due to Lily's letter to Sirius in DH. Of course, the only times I've see the pairing in fanfic or a blog, the writer or blogger is often H/G and R/Hr. I haven't found a H/Hr shipper who ships this. And it also doesn't help that I have my idea of what Marlene's like and it doesn't mesh with what everyone else thinks she's like. Downside of liking a pairing where one character never appears in the books, I guess.
The fighting is very character driving and is a whole lot about moral values as well as some times being based in insecurities. (The Great Game starts with Sherlock feeling insulted by John's blog, which is a bit heartbreaking since John wrote in it to compliment him. But then they have a fight where the basic disagreement is if caring about the lives at stake is an advantage or not. And a lot of the insecurity is based on Sherlock thinking that John likes him only for his brains, and he's always hiding his heart.) It is possible I'm biased, but Molly even does the whole clamming up and embarrassing herself in the beginning, so. And Sherlock barely acknowledges her at first so, yes.
Honestly I think a lot of viewers want the fangirl to get the hero, and then they justify it to themselves with "she earned it because she's nerdy" or similar tripe. And then ignore how the fangirl ends up losing any interesting character development as they get stuck in the Love Interest swamp of stagnation, where they're a plot device reward for the hero's good behavior. Never mind that they're not compatible, or that they bring out the worst of each other, or any of that because boy meets girl, so therefor cute.
Sorry. :P I just prefer having a good starting point before shipping. My only crossover ship (that doesn't come from any official or popular crossover story) is Harry Potter/Lisa Simpson, and that's just my tongue in cheek reaction to "everything Rowling says is canon".
I find it hard to find H/Hr-shippers in general. Unless I'm really boiling inside to get the truth out, I normally don't tell people in other fandoms that I ship H/Hr and notp R/Hr and H/G, because well you know. I think a lot of H/Hr-shippers are hiding because they don't want that stigma attached. Meanwhile, guess which shippers never tag their posts with their ship tags, but only general Harry Potter tags? -_- Some times it feels like you're not allowed to like Harry Potter unless you also love OBHWF. And it's always "Ron and Ginny are so unfairly hated by the H/Hrs", and I'm like "if I hated Ron and Ginny, I would ship OBHWF". If loving Ron means wanting to see him constantly undermined by his girlfriend/wife, then that is a twisted love.
Hmm, well, that definitely doesn't sound like R/Hr. Their fighting was mostly insulting each other and their personalities clashing. Ron had lots of insecurities, but his fighting with Hermione was hardly based around those. And Hermione insulted because she took offense to what Ron said! And yeah, Molly does sound like Ginny, especially in the barely acknowledgment.
Definitely agree. It might also be that some people just don't know how to write romance and it's easier to make hero/fangirl pairings because there's not a whole lot of depth to them. Unlike a H/Hr-like pairing where Hermione is constantly helping Harry and actually contributes to the plot, a fangirl can just be a background character and the writer doesn't have to develop her at all. And of course, a pairing that doesn't develop...doesn't always work out well for the hero.
Well, it's hard to find a pairing for Sirius because the only girl I can think of that he interacts with is Hermione and well, I'm so not going there! :p You have to go with crack pairings with him because there's really not any interaction with another girl. But it's got in my head, taking up residence and refuses to be evicted! :p Heh, Sorry, Ginny, you've got to share Harry now because Rowling said so! :p
I've found a few H/Hr tumblrs, but either they don't update very often or they don't like the Ron and Ginny (and I like Book 1-5!Ginny) and bash them. I have found one that likes Ron/Luna and Neville/Ginny, but I haven't asked them what they think of Sirius/Marlene because it sounds like a weird question to ask. :(
Like, on the surface, I could see why Molly and Felicity are confused for Hermione-type characters, because they do help the hero with the plot, and they are intelligent in their own right. But Hermione is not the kind of character to help with the plot and then go back in the shadows, and she never once put Harry on pedestal per say. Like, she did obviously value him above Ron, and she held him to standards, but these expectations were based on knowing Harry, not knowing about Harry.
Molly developed a crush on the Sherlock she saw in the morgue, cool and mysterious. John lives with Sherlock, and sees a lot more of his low points and the real self he hide away in public. There's a great scene where John comments on Sherlock always wearing his collar up "to look cool", sort of like when Hermione commented on Harry's Boy Who Lived status in HBP. I was skimming through PS recently, and I had forgotten how incredibly whatever Hermione is about his fame. "Oh, I read about you in that and that book. Don't forget to put your robes on, we're almost there." And then he's any other student up until the troll incident.
Most importantly, a fangirl doesn't properly challenge the hero. They can do a weak imitation ("Lucky you!") but because they generally leave such a fleeting impression it's hard to take it seriously. They put the hero on this pedestal, idolizing them in such a way that any breach of their high standards make the hero a traitor in their eyes. A partner doesn't have the hero beholden to their standards in such a way, but does challenge them in the daily life. Hermione does what she thinks is best even if it'll make Harry hate her (it doesn't, but interesting how Ron took the security sweep of Harry's broom so freaking personal).
For Sirius, might I recommend considering same gendered alternatives? I forget how you feel about slash, but the one Sirius ship I ever saw/felt was Sirius/Remus. Of course, crack is fun too, if used responsibly. (Also, I'm just slightly hypocritical, because I do ship little-to-no-interaction pairings in Hetalia, but A) they're countries with real world potential for canon interaction and B) I did say the pairing had to be popular in the fandom to count as bread on bread and finally C) ok, I'm hypocritical, who are you, the hypocrisy police?)
Trust me, tumblr is made of worse anon questions. They'll probably be happy you aren't the umpteenth spam bot claiming to be studying their final year in college, and could you just help with this itty bitty favor? Or yet another "wait how can you ship Harry/Hermione if it didn't happen in the books?". Just word it politely, and I'm sure you'll be fine.
Still think that sounds like Ginny. She did a few things to help with the plot (well, sort of…nothing like Hermione did, of course). I’m guessing what Molly and Felicity did is much more like what Hermione did, instead of Ginny’s contribution, but still…helping out with the plot and fading to the background is more of a Ginny character instead of a Hermione character.
Yep, that sounds like Ginny except she didn’t even have to look at Harry. She just heard his name and went fangirl! :) She didn’t even recognize him when he first approached Mrs. Weasley and was only interested when she found out who he was! Hermione? Oh, you’re Harry Potter? You’re in such and such books, didn’t you know? Well, bye! *ignores him* XD Speaking of, when I was rereading the books, I noticed that Harry and Hermione hardly have any conversations together. It’s usually Ron and Hermione talking, especially the earlier books. That really weirded me out. Whenever they do, it’s usually related to the plot, but the majority of the talking is dominated by Ron and Hermione. Was that supposed to be a hint?
Exactly. That Lucky You scene is kind of silly. Ginny sat on her information entire time, not once going to Harry until Hermione joins them and she drags Harry to Ron and Ginny. Ginny didn’t even try. At least Ron tried! Not to mention, in the end, Ginny’s information turned out to be false, Harry ends up being possessed by Voldemort. His possession was just unique, nothing like how Ginny was possessed.
The broom incident is really a good example of the difference between Harry/Hermione and Ron/Hermione. With Harry, even through he’s angry, we get an admission that he knew Hermione had meant well. He understands it, but of course, he lets his anger get control of him because he wanted that Firebolt so much, finally got it and now it’s gone because of Hermione! When he gets it back, he’s all willing to patch things up, he doesn’t harbor a grudge against her for it! With Ron, we never see an admission that Hermione means well. Even when Harry says they should make up with Hermione (and he’s the one who suggests it, not Ron), Ron’s just “Yeah, all right,” nothing else. Even through Ron acted the worst during the whole fight!
I’m really not into slash, to be honest. And I never really felt anything for Sirius/Remus, either, even if I did. I felt like they were friends/brothers more than anything else. And Remus/Tonks has been growing on me, lately, too, especially once I tried to think of how it could be fixed and better written. But yeah, I know Sirius/Marlene is completely crack (well, they had to interact with each other given the picture, but still…we don’t see that, so crack). Some people try to use the letters in Book 7 as support for it, but that’s flimsy at best, especially since we don’t see Sirius write back! Also, apparently, the OOTP movie had Sirius show Harry the OOTP picture, instead of Moody and he only mentioned Frank and Alice Longbottom and Marlene McKinnon. I think that’s interesting, but still, not outright evidence. I would never go around and claim it has tons of evidence or it’s canon, semi-canon or anything like that. It’s more or less a crack ship and I’m okay with that! :) I just want to see a H/Hr viewpoint on Sirius/Marlene because all I've encountered if R/Hr and H/G for it. :(
I’ve actually asked used the anon feature a couple of times. And I always tried to word things just right, hoping I don’t come off as a crazy person. Sometimes, I hate rambling so much! T_T But I guess I could try it. I’ll just say I know it’s a crack ship, but my imagination helped create a liking to it and I’m curious to how H/Hr shippers would view it, especially in fanfic...if such fanfic can be found... *grumbles due to lack of fanfic*
If you're up for it, I know some new SW stuff that might be interesting: New comics that bridge ANH with ESB and that is supposed to align with the new canon SW Rebels, an all-CGI cartoon that follows a rag tag group fighting against the Empire (before ANH) and very slowly introducing the bigger rebellion (has some canon connections with the Clone Wars cartoon if that is knowledge of interest)
I was watching Rebels, but anything SW-related was stressing me out so much, I couldn't take it anymore, so I didn't get to season 2. :( It still does. Until I get more comfortable, that'll all have to wait. :(
But people think the H/Hr-comparison is Sherlolly (Sherlock/Molly (an OC created for the series)) because het or something. Like H/Hr-shippers going "she's supportive like Hermione" and I'm just thinking "no, she's doormat like HBP-Ginny". Hermione stands up to Harry, and has a clear set of moral values, and is first and foremost his close friend. (Yes, this means we mix it up with John being the Hermione, but it's a ship comparison not a character one.) Molly is mostly pining in the background, and when she gets and then breaks up with her boyfriend then we get the whole "I'm so tough and feminist towards my (former?) crush" and slaps him in the face. Which, yeah, sounds familiar?
Speaking of H/G-similar couples being mistaken for H/Hr-similar, heard of the show Arrow? The way people speak of Olicity it sounds like it'd be an interesting couple, right until you actually watch the show and just want the pain to end. Like she's pining, never actually gets to know him, is stuck worshiping this image she has of him, which is just so unhealthy. And when they get together, it is strongly tainted by him giving up his responsibilities, so the relationship is clearly making him out at his worst (and this character was already the worst, especially at being a hero.)
What HP pairing have you found? Fair warning, I'll probably zone out if it's Nev/Luna, because they're my "bread-on-bread"-ship of HP. That is a term I recently came up with for those pairings that are super popular in a fandom, and while you don't hate it you don't really get it either. Like, no real interaction, no real hint of attraction or anything, it's just bread on bread. I mean, you can eat it, but there is a plate full of sandwiches right over there. Really no offense meant if it was Nev/Luna you had in mind, just how I feel.
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I've heard of Arrow, but never watched it. That does sound like H/G, too. What is with the obsession with H/G like pairings?
Well, I guess this is a bread-on-bread ship because it has little basis in the books. One of the characters doesn't even appear in the books, just mentioned. It's Sirius Black/Marlene McKinnon. I ran into it one day (can't remember where) and now I'm hooked on to it. I've seen it said that some people ship it due to Lily's letter to Sirius in DH. Of course, the only times I've see the pairing in fanfic or a blog, the writer or blogger is often H/G and R/Hr. I haven't found a H/Hr shipper who ships this. And it also doesn't help that I have my idea of what Marlene's like and it doesn't mesh with what everyone else thinks she's like. Downside of liking a pairing where one character never appears in the books, I guess.
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Honestly I think a lot of viewers want the fangirl to get the hero, and then they justify it to themselves with "she earned it because she's nerdy" or similar tripe. And then ignore how the fangirl ends up losing any interesting character development as they get stuck in the Love Interest swamp of stagnation, where they're a plot device reward for the hero's good behavior. Never mind that they're not compatible, or that they bring out the worst of each other, or any of that because boy meets girl, so therefor cute.
Sorry. :P I just prefer having a good starting point before shipping. My only crossover ship (that doesn't come from any official or popular crossover story) is Harry Potter/Lisa Simpson, and that's just my tongue in cheek reaction to "everything Rowling says is canon".
I find it hard to find H/Hr-shippers in general. Unless I'm really boiling inside to get the truth out, I normally don't tell people in other fandoms that I ship H/Hr and notp R/Hr and H/G, because well you know. I think a lot of H/Hr-shippers are hiding because they don't want that stigma attached. Meanwhile, guess which shippers never tag their posts with their ship tags, but only general Harry Potter tags? -_- Some times it feels like you're not allowed to like Harry Potter unless you also love OBHWF. And it's always "Ron and Ginny are so unfairly hated by the H/Hrs", and I'm like "if I hated Ron and Ginny, I would ship OBHWF". If loving Ron means wanting to see him constantly undermined by his girlfriend/wife, then that is a twisted love.
I like icon-choosing on LJ. ♥
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Definitely agree. It might also be that some people just don't know how to write romance and it's easier to make hero/fangirl pairings because there's not a whole lot of depth to them. Unlike a H/Hr-like pairing where Hermione is constantly helping Harry and actually contributes to the plot, a fangirl can just be a background character and the writer doesn't have to develop her at all. And of course, a pairing that doesn't develop...doesn't always work out well for the hero.
Well, it's hard to find a pairing for Sirius because the only girl I can think of that he interacts with is Hermione and well, I'm so not going there! :p You have to go with crack pairings with him because there's really not any interaction with another girl. But it's got in my head, taking up residence and refuses to be evicted! :p Heh, Sorry, Ginny, you've got to share Harry now because Rowling said so! :p
I've found a few H/Hr tumblrs, but either they don't update very often or they don't like the Ron and Ginny (and I like Book 1-5!Ginny) and bash them. I have found one that likes Ron/Luna and Neville/Ginny, but I haven't asked them what they think of Sirius/Marlene because it sounds like a weird question to ask. :(
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Molly developed a crush on the Sherlock she saw in the morgue, cool and mysterious. John lives with Sherlock, and sees a lot more of his low points and the real self he hide away in public. There's a great scene where John comments on Sherlock always wearing his collar up "to look cool", sort of like when Hermione commented on Harry's Boy Who Lived status in HBP. I was skimming through PS recently, and I had forgotten how incredibly whatever Hermione is about his fame. "Oh, I read about you in that and that book. Don't forget to put your robes on, we're almost there." And then he's any other student up until the troll incident.
Most importantly, a fangirl doesn't properly challenge the hero. They can do a weak imitation ("Lucky you!") but because they generally leave such a fleeting impression it's hard to take it seriously. They put the hero on this pedestal, idolizing them in such a way that any breach of their high standards make the hero a traitor in their eyes. A partner doesn't have the hero beholden to their standards in such a way, but does challenge them in the daily life. Hermione does what she thinks is best even if it'll make Harry hate her (it doesn't, but interesting how Ron took the security sweep of Harry's broom so freaking personal).
For Sirius, might I recommend considering same gendered alternatives? I forget how you feel about slash, but the one Sirius ship I ever saw/felt was Sirius/Remus. Of course, crack is fun too, if used responsibly. (Also, I'm just slightly hypocritical, because I do ship little-to-no-interaction pairings in Hetalia, but A) they're countries with real world potential for canon interaction and B) I did say the pairing had to be popular in the fandom to count as bread on bread and finally C) ok, I'm hypocritical, who are you, the hypocrisy police?)
Trust me, tumblr is made of worse anon questions. They'll probably be happy you aren't the umpteenth spam bot claiming to be studying their final year in college, and could you just help with this itty bitty favor? Or yet another "wait how can you ship Harry/Hermione if it didn't happen in the books?". Just word it politely, and I'm sure you'll be fine.
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Yep, that sounds like Ginny except she didn’t even have to look at Harry. She just heard his name and went fangirl! :) She didn’t even recognize him when he first approached Mrs. Weasley and was only interested when she found out who he was! Hermione? Oh, you’re Harry Potter? You’re in such and such books, didn’t you know? Well, bye! *ignores him* XD Speaking of, when I was rereading the books, I noticed that Harry and Hermione hardly have any conversations together. It’s usually Ron and Hermione talking, especially the earlier books. That really weirded me out. Whenever they do, it’s usually related to the plot, but the majority of the talking is dominated by Ron and Hermione. Was that supposed to be a hint?
Exactly. That Lucky You scene is kind of silly. Ginny sat on her information entire time, not once going to Harry until Hermione joins them and she drags Harry to Ron and Ginny. Ginny didn’t even try. At least Ron tried! Not to mention, in the end, Ginny’s information turned out to be false, Harry ends up being possessed by Voldemort. His possession was just unique, nothing like how Ginny was possessed.
The broom incident is really a good example of the difference between Harry/Hermione and Ron/Hermione. With Harry, even through he’s angry, we get an admission that he knew Hermione had meant well. He understands it, but of course, he lets his anger get control of him because he wanted that Firebolt so much, finally got it and now it’s gone because of Hermione! When he gets it back, he’s all willing to patch things up, he doesn’t harbor a grudge against her for it! With Ron, we never see an admission that Hermione means well. Even when Harry says they should make up with Hermione (and he’s the one who suggests it, not Ron), Ron’s just “Yeah, all right,” nothing else. Even through Ron acted the worst during the whole fight!
I’m really not into slash, to be honest. And I never really felt anything for Sirius/Remus, either, even if I did. I felt like they were friends/brothers more than anything else. And Remus/Tonks has been growing on me, lately, too, especially once I tried to think of how it could be fixed and better written. But yeah, I know Sirius/Marlene is completely crack (well, they had to interact with each other given the picture, but still…we don’t see that, so crack). Some people try to use the letters in Book 7 as support for it, but that’s flimsy at best, especially since we don’t see Sirius write back! Also, apparently, the OOTP movie had Sirius show Harry the OOTP picture, instead of Moody and he only mentioned Frank and Alice Longbottom and Marlene McKinnon. I think that’s interesting, but still, not outright evidence. I would never go around and claim it has tons of evidence or it’s canon, semi-canon or anything like that. It’s more or less a crack ship and I’m okay with that! :) I just want to see a H/Hr viewpoint on Sirius/Marlene because all I've encountered if R/Hr and H/G for it. :(
I’ve actually asked used the anon feature a couple of times. And I always tried to word things just right, hoping I don’t come off as a crazy person. Sometimes, I hate rambling so much! T_T But I guess I could try it. I’ll just say I know it’s a crack ship, but my imagination helped create a liking to it and I’m curious to how H/Hr shippers would view it, especially in fanfic...if such fanfic can be found... *grumbles due to lack of fanfic*
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New comics that bridge ANH with ESB and that is supposed to align with the new canon
SW Rebels, an all-CGI cartoon that follows a rag tag group fighting against the Empire (before ANH) and very slowly introducing the bigger rebellion (has some canon connections with the Clone Wars cartoon if that is knowledge of interest)
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