Comments | shanghaiedinla: How M/M via DS Non-Ironically Ruined My Life Meme: Down With Love

shanghaiedinla

How M/M via DS Non-Ironically Ruined My Life Meme: Down With Love

Feb 28, 2013 01:49

"I will never love again the way I love ... [them]."

[Downton Abbey S3 Spoilers Ahead]

Day 27 - When it's over, where will Matthew and Mary stand in your annal of OTPs?

Well, dear Anna (in one of the best, quietest, most effective -- and affecting -- scenes from S2) said it best. And I will never love a fictional couple the way I love(d) them. I never had before and now, even ( Read more... )

sexandthecity, m/m, hamlet, michelledockery, doctorzhivago, theprincessandthewarrior, danstevens, thegreatgatsby, dogfight, girls, janeeyre, film, sixfeetunder, carrie/big, marycrawley, satc, ataleoftwocities, derkriegerunddiekaiserin, prideandprejudice, brenda/nate, ladyandthetramp, mary/matthew, notorious, television, ilovelucy, madmen, meme, julianfellowes, daspoilers, persuasion, lucy/desi, downtonabbey, literature, shadowlands, matthewcrawley

Leave a comment

Back to all threads

(The comment has been removed)

modernities March 1 2013, 04:22:25 UTC

But when I feel detached by the fandom, like, unfortunately, is now happening with some M/M shippers (or so called shippers, because really, how can you consider yourself a shipper when you throw that much hate upon one of the characters, and think to all the possibilities there are now in store for the other? :|)As one of those individuals, I think this is a bit unfair to say. M/M will always by my OTP through 3.01, but I was so unsatisfied with them as a married couple that seeing Mary, a character who deserves to be treated well by her narrative, become so stagnant in marriage was just saddening. For it, I blame both JF and Stevens--Stevens for messing up the direction of the narration in the first place and JF for, well, not doing more with it when he had the opportunity. Everyone was so looking forward to seeing how both Mary and Matthew would grow together as future Earl and Countess, but we didn't get that. And, despite the fact that she loved him dearly, if it means that Matthew has to be out of the picture in order for Mary ( ... )

(The comment has been removed)

modernities March 6 2013, 15:12:01 UTC

And that's what really I don't understand. If being Countess and wife and mother was Mary's narrative potential, how on earth Matthew's death can be 'better' for it?Since when 'does narrative potential' have anything to do with what we presume the author (JF) intended for her? For me narrative potential is a character fulfilling their traits, speaking for a larger philosophy, constantly changing and evolving. Narrative potential for Mary doesn't have to equate with becoming countess, and I think that to say that that is untrue is an extremely narrow view of who she is as a person. There are ways that Mary's character can go that keep her in the confines of 'in-character' and not all of them include being 'countess.' I wanted her to be countess as much as anyone, but honestly, thinking of her having to partially run an estate while possibly being regent if Robert dies is more thrilling to me than the idea of her merely coming into her own as countess. It's a detour in her story that she probably never saw coming, but she gets more hard ( ... )

shanghaiedinla March 6 2013, 16:25:39 UTC

Hi, I'm jumping in too.

It's a detour in her story that she probably never saw coming, but she gets more hard power in the house and in a way, that is even more fulfilling than countess.

This of course assumes that JF will indeed go this direction with the script. He may, but he very well may not. I think a lot of things Mary fans want(ed) to see happen for her -- in terms of agency, empowerment and/or overcoming the restrictions placed on her because of her gender -- will probably never happen. For instance, IMO, Robert (or anyone else) is never going to try to break the entail. I think JF's decision to give her a son sort of put an end to that idea (of course, George may go off to war in twenty years and die -- and that's the only way it would happen IMO -- but I don't think DA will be around long enough to show that ... and I wouldn't want to see it in any event). Maybe I'm wrong, but when it comes to what we would like to see for Mary, I don't think we can count our chickens just yet.

modernities March 7 2013, 23:44:49 UTC

This of course assumes that JF will indeed go this direction with the script. He may, but he very well may not. I think a lot of things Mary fans want(ed) to see happen for her -- in terms of agency, empowerment and/or overcoming the restrictions placed on her because of her gender -- will probably never happen. For instance, IMO, Robert (or anyone else) is never going to try to break the entail.I find this statement odd considering what we were given in s3 vs what we know of s4. In s4 we've already had hints that Mary will take more active involvement in running the estate and might face legal issues regarding guardianship of her son, etc. For me personally that seems like a lot more empowerment and agency than she had in s3 where she often just faded into the background. In some hypothetical world where Dan Stevens had stayed and JF had killed off Robert in s4, her being countess still seems like it would pale in comparison in terms of 'overcoming restrictions on her placed on her because of her gender' to what it sounds like s4 is ( ... )

shanghaiedinla March 9 2013, 18:35:08 UTC

I find this statement odd considering what we were given in s3 vs what we know of s4. In s4 we've already had hints that Mary will take more active involvement in running the estate and might face legal issues regarding guardianship of her son, etc.

But what do we really know? IIRC, the only statement JF/TPTB made about this was very early (like late Dec/early Jan) and wasn't it rather ... vague? To say she'll be more "involved in the estate" could mean almost anything. Something as trivial as the whole 3x02 throwing-a-party-for-Martha subplot could arguably fall under that rubric. DGMW, I'm not saying it WILL be trivial (and I certainly don't think he's going to recycle that particular subplot), but I just think it's very much up in the air what she really will be doing. I just know that even though JF is great at exploring themes relating to gender -- especially with Mary -- it doesn't mean he's going to deliver on things we, as a contemporary audience, want for her ( ... )

shanghaiedinla March 2 2013, 23:20:44 UTC

So sorry I've fallen behind on comments. I didn't forget you!

Well it seems you have much more first-hand experience with fandom in general than I do. DA was really the first show where I've done that -- and I was a lurker for a while even so.

Even if I lose interest in the show (again, Supernatural is a good exemple, even though there is no ship for me in it), it's the fandom that keeps me interested, and if the ship is really an OTP I keep coming back - reading fics, or writing metas.It's a fascinating concept isn't it, how the characters and the universe takes on a life of its own? It's really the ultimate experiment in hermeneutics ( ... )

Back to all threads