How M/M via DS Non-Ironically Ruined My Life Meme: Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda

[shanghaiedinla]

"Deep down you're not on our side!"

[Downton Abbey S3/S4 Spoilers Ahead]



It is a trifecta! In an effort to catch up (again), it made sense to take on not two but three topics today since, in my mind anyway, the next three on the list are thematically linked. What is the theme? In a word: loyalty.

Day 18 - Other than Matthew not dying, what is the one thing you'd have changed

Comments

[eolivet]

OK, I'm trying to catch up here! I'm especially intrigued about your idea about what was supposed to happen with S/B, because I think it's SO TRUE and utterly fascinating... :)

And I think some fans' anger at Matthew -- including mine -- over his attitude in early S3 was exacerbated by the fact that whatever Matthew offered Mary by way of apology for what he said to her at Lavinia's graveside, we never witnessed it onscreen, so for many of us it was a wound that had just scabbed over when it was ripped open again with the Matthew/Mary pre-wedding fight in 3x01.

Sigh. Great choice, BTW -- and I agree. You know I'm the biggest JF apologist around, but that was his one SEVERE miscalculation.

I almost feel like Mary's proud nature worked against her in this storyline, as well. Any woman who wasn't as strong and proud as Mary was would've probably whined to her husband at some point, "You wish you'd married Lavinia instead of me! You don't love me at all!" Which Matthew would've obviously had to refute. The point was he never had to.

AND since JF didn't know about DS leaving, he didn't temper the storyline. If he had to do that storyline and he knew Matthew was going to die, don't you think it would've had a lot more "Please don't think this changes how much I love you, my darling! This is only about doing what's right!" and a lot less "I was unfaithful to Lavinia, blah blah." Basically, it would've been more Mary-centric (as things ended up being at the end of S3) than Matthew-centric (which the viewers tired of).

Hee, we pretty much had the same answer about what we wanted to see in S4...YAY mirror shippers!!! :high-five: :D

And as a practical matter, Mary's grief is a proxy for everyone else's on the show: when she moves on, the show will move on.

EXCELLENT point. It's interesting, though, the more I read about interviews with JF -- that he's going to leave after S4 if his NBC Pilot gets picked up (which it almost certainly will because...duh! ;p ) -- I wonder if he's basically talked a big game. If losing Matthew really crushed him (and influenced his writing for them last year in the second half of S3, because he knew what was happening) and while he talked a big game about being excited to write S4...he really isn't. (His comments about S4 were starting to remind me about DS' and his family -- the gentleman doth protest too much! ;p )

In a way, that's WORSE because I feel like if JF leaves, MD may as well, and if she does, then the only way he'd have Mary leave DA is to get remarried. OTOH, I almost wonder if that would be "better" for the fans -- like ripping off a band-aid. Nobody wants to see a lengthy two season courtship -- we already did that. Just have her meet some nice man who'd be a good father for her son and...get it over with. :/

This is why I hope beyond hope that Mary/JF names her son Matthew -- so his memory will be kept alive in that respect. :) If not, well then...other than MD's acting, it'd be quite easy to erase him from the canvas forever. :(

(Love the idea of Matthew as the lead-off man, though...great baseball analogy. :D )

And if MD DOES leave, then M/M are truly just gone -- and maybe THEN DA can start to rebuild itself, using the older folks as building blocks and just bringing in new young whippersnapper cousins to cause Violet to utter witty quips and Robert to roll his eyes in understanding and Cora to give them her tolerant smile and teach them all -- as they taught their own family before them -- what Downton means.

I have a post brewing for after this meme, which draws on a lot of your "paradigm shift" ideas, but it basically says that without M/M, DA has become an Edwardian procedural drama. We tune in for "cases" of Edwardian life, mini-arcs, but nothing overarching. It's become nothing but "slices of life" with no real end goal in mind.

Sigh...it's just so sad. :(

[shanghaiedinla]

Hi, Mirror Shipper!

If he had to do that storyline and he knew Matthew was going to die, don't you think it would've had a lot more "Please don't think this changes how much I love you, my darling! This is only about doing what's right!"

I guess when he tells her in that 3x02 library scene, "I do love you so terribly much," it was supposed to accomplish this ... But ... it just seems like cheap lip service given the magnitude of losing Downton.

(His comments about S4 were starting to remind me about DS' and his family -- the gentleman doth protest too much! ;p )

Oh, I agree. I think it's definitely bravado and not just on his part; I see it (hear it) with Gareth Neame too. Part of it is an existential crisis; part of it is trying to get in front of this from a PR perspective (i.e. damage control).

So do you not think they extracted a S5 commitment from MD as well? And if they did ... I just don't see her as the type who would renege. (I mean even DS didn't do that technically -- and MD is a lot more honorable than DS.)

Nobody wants to see a lengthy two season courtship -- we already did that. Just have her meet some nice man who'd be a good father for her son and...get it over with.

I see your point, but how invested will people be in this romance if we barely know the guy? He'll end up being Lavinia and no one ever cared about her character. IDK, it just brings me back to my thought, which is: if you're not going to bother to make the romance compelling, why do it at all? Once it seemed like it was an exit strategy, that was one thing. But the latest (unless I've missed something very recent?) indicates that MD is staying put for 2 more seasons ... in which case I just don't get it.

it'd be quite easy to erase him from the canvas forever. :(

IDK if that's really true but I do agree that they'll try. And that's what angers me -- the pretense of it. ... But for them to truly erase him from the canvas, they'd have to hunt down every copy of S1 and S2 out there and destroy them, which they can't. I mean it's there for posterity. But, yes, it hurts to think JF would completely turn his back on his most beloved creation because an actor turned out to be an ass. I would rather he just acknowledge the loss and try to rebuild in other ways. Be honest. Integrity is always more compelling that falsity.

I have a post brewing for after this meme, which draws on a lot of your "paradigm shift" ideas

Ooh, can't wait! ... And to me it's this question of what IS DA about now that just won't go away. Because yes, we can all think of new plots and new characters. But with no center of gravity what is the point of continuing? Like I said somewhere, it's just become a run-of-the-mill gloomy manor house drama. ... There's a reason why the remade Upstairs, Downstairs never caught on the way DA did ...

[eolivet]

So do you not think they extracted a S5 commitment from MD as well?

I wonder...there's some speculation in some circles she only signed for S4. I actually don't think it's that big a deal if she's asked to be let out of her contract, now that JBF and DS have paved the way. I'm sure she'd be nothing but gracious (which has always been my problem with the DS apologist tendencies -- it's HOW he left. I don't care that he fulfilled his contract or whatever, he was an ASS about it on the way out. There's a way to leave your contract without being an ass, and there's a way to "fulfill" your contract and look like the biggest jerk on the planet). If MD has a legitimate Hollywood career at the end of S4, and she decides to leave, nobody is going to think her ungrateful (especially since I'm sure she'd return for guest spots if asked).

if you're not going to bother to make the romance compelling, why do it at all?

Well, because that's just what people did, I'd imagine. I'm sure young widowed women did remarry -- in fact, for Mary not to would be OOC. I know they're rushing the romance due to the "magic of television," but I'm sure this wasn't exactly groundbreaking.

Thus, isn't the only way he CAN rebuild is to have Mary move on? I know we take issue with the timing, but maybe people just moved on more quickly back then. :( Especially a woman with a young child in need of a father?

Like I said, I'm just hoping MD decides to leave for ACTUAL bigger and better things after S4, so we can get this over with. Do the romance for romance's sake, give her her consolation prize and bring in new blood. Actually, have Mary AND Edith leave (LC is rumored to be eyeing an exit as well). Get rid of all Crawley sisters and just start over.

THAT, IMO, will be the only way to truly hit the reset button on DA. :/