Meta

[shanex]

Recently I have taken a great interest in languages, and I came up with an interesting idea. I'm fairly convinced this idea hasn't been tried or seriously considered, because it would have no value before the computer age

Comments

[vvvexation]

And a much bigger problem: Do you really think we'll ever have non-sentient programs that can reliably translate individual words that don't have the same set of possible meanings in every language?

[shanex]

In order for this to work, you have to only use unambiguous words, or words whose other use is so rare it can be ignored. Though that won't cover everything. Your best friend's suit might refer to litigation he has in progress. But if that were the case, you'd probably use a more direct word, like "My best friend's lawsuit".

Also no idioms. You can't say things like "make do" or "find out", etc.

But yeah, that's a good point. Hopefully it would be a small enough percentage of the time that context takes care of it.

"Ex-wife of-I KA-call today. She want alimony more. She be unmated goat".

You can probably figure unmated goat isn't precicely what your Cantonese friend wants to get across to you. But you get the general idea.

-ATW

[vvvexation]

Hopefully it would be a small enough percentage of the time that context takes care of it.

Yeah, I'm not so sure about that. Prepositions are common as hell, and those are the words that are hardest to translate. There's just no predicting what cloud of meanings will be attached to a particular preposition in a particular language, and I doubt we'll ever get non-sentient computers to reliably figure out which one is meant in any given sentence.

[shanex]

Not sure how prepositions got in to this topic.

Also, if the wrong preposition is used in a sentence you can usually figure out what was meant.

"I got in the 5:30 flight toward New York. I noticed the ice on my cup had melted so I asked the stewardess to come across and give me new ice..."

Can you give examples of problem sentences?

[vvvexation]

We were talking about how frequently it might be necessary to use ambiguous words. Therefore, it seemed relevant to point out that there exists a large class of words that are both frequently used and often ambiguous. And given that many prepositions convey exactly opposite meanings, it seems awfully short-sighted to dismiss them overall as unessential to the meaning of most sentences.

Here's a problem sentence: "Frank was seated by Jane." Is Jane Frank's neighbor or is she an usher? And if you're translating into a language that doesn't have just one word that means both "next to" and "through the agency of," then what word do you pick?

Sentences like that are rife in just about any language, and it ain't just prepositions that are the sticking point--that was merely one example.

[shanex]

I see what you're talking about.

Though in that case, Meta already has problems because we haven't come up with how to do passive voice yet. For that particular example, you would either have to say "Jane seated Frank" ("Jane KA-seat Frank") or you would have to wait till I figure out how passive voice sentences are done. ;-P

But yeah, that could be problematic.

-ATW