Four things that always kinda bugged me about Angel: the Series

[shadowscast]

Hey, so, quite recently, I finished an epic rewatch of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel: the Series. I use the word "epic" because I was doing this rewatch with a friend, and it took us five years to complete. (It didn't help that during that time, he moved to Seattle for a year and I had a baby and, well, life sure does get in the way of TV-

Comments

[shakatany]

Is Holland saying that all of human evil is rooted in an external malevolent source that could potentially be destroyed, leaving us all holding hands and singing Kumbaya in our earthly paradise? So is W&H a manifestation of that First Evil critter who's interested in Angel and who remains on the loose after "Chosen" - Buffy & co. just defeated his Turok Han minions so they won that battle but how can they permanently defeat an incorporeal being? And if they did, would that, as you say, leave us all holding hands and singing Kumbaya in our earthly paradise?

It often seems to me that BtVS and Ats are set in two different AUs.

Shakatany

[shadowscast]

It often seems to me that BtVS and Ats are set in two different AUs.

Yeah. Like how the Powers that Be are never mentioned in AtS, while the First Evil is never mentioned in BtVS?

One of my pet theories is that the First Evil is one of the PtB, as are the senior partners of W&H. I mean, who ever said that the PtB had to be benevolent? All we really know is that they're powerful.

[shakatany]

Like how the Powers that Be are never mentioned in AtS, while the First Evil is never mentioned in BtVS? I think you mean the opposite *g*

You're right they could all be so-called higher beings and helpless pieces of the game they play upon this checker-board of nights and days (to paraphrase the Rubiyat). There was no way Buffy & co could defeat the incorporeal FE and from the looks of things neither could Angel defeat W&H

Shakatany

[shadowscast]

Heh, whoops, exactly the opposite, yes. :-)

All-knowing, all-powerful beings are kinda boring, but mostly-knowing, very-powerful beings that play out their power struggles with each other using humans, vamps etc. as pawns has definite narrative potential.

Love your icon, btw!

[shakatany]

Thank you - it's my declaration that there were only 7 seasons and the so-called S8 is not canon IMO.

Shakatany

[shakatany]

And yes such "superior" beings are boring because writers can make up any rules they want to and they're ultimately undefeatable.

Shakatany

[harsens_rob]

I accept that Buffy beat the First Evil, just not permanently banished it. It's been a bit long since I've delved into S7 again, but wasn't Buffy's resurrection the cause of the FE having the chance to "get over this good and evil thing" in the first place? I always took that as meaning that because Willow upset the balance to good's side (by bringing a Slayer back out of ... well, not HEAVEN because I reject that notion... but maybe little H- heaven) that the FE received a free "defeat the world and fully inhabit it" chance

[shakatany]

I don't know what to think as the "rules" about the First Evil were fuzzy and seemingly improvised as they went along. If the First Evil can make a move every time there's more than one Slayer in existence (in S3 after the first time Buffy was brought back to life at the end of S1 and then in S7 after her resurrection in S6) shouldn't the upset of the balance caused by the creation of thousands of Slayers give it a real opportunity to wreak havoc?

The whole idea of this First Evil thingy was definitely not well thought out.

Shakatany

[harsens_rob]

Joss has never really been a "consistent rules" sort of guy - it's always been about the metaphor and the character reactions - it falls to us fans who feel the need to weave everything into a narrative that makes sense start to finish to figure out how to make it all work - *grin

[shakatany]

Nothing was said as to why the FE became active in S3 but it did follow Buffy's first return from the dead which caused Kendra to become a Slayer and upon her death Faith. If that incident with the FE had nothing to do with there being more than one Slayer then the FE can be active anytime and Willow pulling Buffy out of that heavenly dimension had nothing specifically to do with it.

Shakatany

[shadowscast]

I'd never even thought before about why the FE evil was briefly active in S4, but your explanation makes so much sense I'm willing to believe the writers did that one on purpose! :-)