Interesting Additions to my Previous Entry

[shadowravyn]

First of all, this in no way changes any of my previous entry about the way the article was framed, especially in regards to the victim-blaming that I still feel was very prevalent in the NY Times article. However, more information has come to light making the reporting more complex, as there are several more issues at play.

BUT LET'S BE CLEAR.

Comments

[acousticshadow2]

to Tinylegacies I guess you did not read my post, nor understood what I was trying to say. If you had, you would have noticed that I was in no way condoning what they did. Nor did I blame her mother for what happend, nor did I blame the girl for what happend.

I am insulted and offended by your slanderous remarks towards me and you inability to look at the topics proposed in a reasonable and detached manner.

If you had read what I had said rather than jumping to conclusions and reacting rashly you would have noticed and understood what my comments meant and the arguements I was putting forth as a topic of conversation in a "devil's advocate" manner to look at this from various perspecitives all pointely refering to the issue being lack of journalistic integrity and ability.

I cannot nor do I blame anyone right now except the men who, without a doubt and with viable proof raped the girl. I would like to point out that to accuse a person of rape when the are innocent IS in fact almost as bad as rape. Their life is never the same, they are blacklisted, they can't get a job, people fear them and all these things are right and just punishments for those who commit heinous crimes, but as none of us were there and none of us knows the truth I am not quick to punish those that have not yet had their right of due process of law. If they are guilty I support the death penalty for rapists and even more so for child rapists. If they are innocent immagine what they are going through. (I realize that a condemnation of hell is about to rein upon me from the supreme high internet for pitying people who might be innocent, but so be it.)

"11 year olds do not need 24/7 supervision. Hell, I started babysitting at 12. You're buying into the same patriarchal, misogynistic bullshit as the victim blamers. THE ONLY PEOPLE TO BLAME FOR A CRIME ARE THE PEOPLE WHO COMMITTED THE CRIME. Full stop. "

I didn't say that 11 year olds need 24/7 supervision. I am insulted by your pointed and personal remarks towards me without reading or understanding my statement or the points I was trying to make. I never said it was the mother's fault and your personally attacking and insulting me shows that you are not able to have this conversation as an adult in a calm and reasonable manner. I would prefer to not engage in slanderous mud throwing.

I agree with your statement that the parents of these men and boys are also bad parents. They should have trained up their children to respect human life in all aspects, but I also do not think we can't directly BLAME the parents of the men and boys who did this. The only people to BLAME are the ones who actually commited the crime. They are at fault for the actual crime. No one but them, however while it is not the "fault" of others, I see negligence in many parties that lead to the situation of this happening.

I agree with balsamicdragon "a person can be a bad parents and still not be responsible for their child being raped." I never stated that it was her mother's fault for her rape. I am saying that her mother (from the article that everyone in their right mind has already agreed was horrible) seemed to be negligent. However, I still admit that I don't know the facts. No one really seems to as we are all getting our information from a really bad article and then from second, third, 4th and gratuitous multiple hands of the interwebs.

My point is that while it is not the parent's responsibility if bad things happen to their child because of other people. It IS the parent's responsibility to make sure their child isn't hanging out with the kind of people who might rape her... If I had a daughter who was 11 and "hanging out" with 24 year olds all KINDS of warning bells and whistles would go off in my mind. If they didn't, I would be a "bad parent". I'm not saying that it is the mother's fault. I'm saying that the mother didn't seem to exactly be the best parent. (and this conclusion is only from the article that was bad journalism and didn't tell us enough information about the story to make education arguments about what went on)

[tinylegacies]

I would like to point out that to accuse a person of rape when the are innocent IS in fact almost as bad as rape.

NO

You are wrong. Flat out wrong. In fact, the articles about this situation are a prime example of why you are wrong. These 18 men and boys who were accused of rape are being defended while the 11 year old victim is being villified. That is because we live in a rape culture and people think this kind of behavior is okay.

[balsamicdragon]

Would you happen to be from Salem? Because you can clearly witch hunt with the best of them. We live in a country where people are innocent until proven guilty. Everyone here agrees that the article was badly, badly written and is emblematic of a host of problems in our society. But until a jury convicts these guys, they are only "alleged" rapists.

[tinylegacies]

Yes, GOD FORBID that any men's lives be "ruined" by this. Because it's ALL ABOUT THE MEN.

Who gives a shit about that poor little girl?

[balsamicdragon]

YOU are not defending the little girl. You are not helping her. You are not talking about her. YOU are attacking those who want to find out more about what happened so that it can be stopped.

The rest of us (in the real world) care deeply about rape victims and would never villify them. We also know that the best way to help them is through JUSTICE. YOU clearly do not understand the meaning of the word.