Anon Concrit Meme Thoughts...
Please forgive the rambling nature of this post; I'm still trying to really tease out a coherent narrative from the nebulous thought/feelings I have. In all, this is a 'why I'm uncomfortable leaving anonymous crit' rather than a 'no one should leave anonymous crit.'
I have a low-level discomfort with the anon concrit meme. However, I think it is a good idea to have it, because people need a safe space to offer suggestions and criticisms and not everyone is comfortable doing it with their 'face' on. Because I want concrit, their comfort trumps my discomfort, which is why, after much hemming and hawing, I signed up. And my discomfort doesn't come from a fear of people using the shield of anonymity to be a jackass and say hurtful things (much); I trust the people in FH to be as kind as they can while still being helpful. This may be a foolish assumption on my part, but until I'm proven wrong, it's there.
It's more that I'm uncomfortable with not what was said, but the need to be anonymous while saying it. It makes me wonder if I come off as unapproachable with criticism or something. I understand, intellectually, that some people might only be comfortable leaving criticism when they can do so anonymously, but, dammit, this is my LJ and if I wanna take things a certain way, I can.
Hmm, let me back up a moment. I didn't leave any criticism for anyone during the meme. I thought about doing so once or twice--even got halfway through a post before deleting it--but decided not to. And the reason was, specifically, the format. The people I had criticism for, I considered a 'friend,' or, at least friendly enough where I felt that I didn't need to be anonymous to leave criticism. In fact, it felt odd to leave criticism anonymously, because I felt (and this is purely me, folks) that it signified a lack of trust on my part. That I was worried about the reaction they'd have to my criticism and didn't want to deal with that.
So, then I thought about responding with my 'face' on, so to speak, and again was stymied, this time by an uncertainty about the rules and proper etiquette of the situation. If I was comfortable enough to leave concrit while logged in, was this really the proper venue to do so? Would it be better to contact them privately and discuss things? Would they be offended if I left the crit there, since I wasn't anonymous? I know other people left comments while logged in, but I still feel like I'm testing the waters. In the comment I had started typing out, the first two paragraphs were me basically saying: "I'm anonymous because that's the point of the meme; if you want to know who I am, I'll tell you; and I thought of this crit because of the meme, not because it's been something I've been worried about and obsessing over for awhile now." Which is another concern of mine: if people have been waiting for the opportunity to be anonymous, how long have they been holding this stuff in? I would far prefer to hear, "Hey, this thing you did bugged me" ten seconds after I did it then try to figure out what someone is referencing from several weeks or months ago.
Which, really just means I need to put up an HMD post, but whatever.
Another reason I feel stupid putting up anonymous crit is that I'm pretty sure whoever I'm talking to will be able to guess who I am anyway. It's like reading roleplaysecrets, when the posters are all "Obvious Anon is Obvious, teehee!" which just annoys me. If you're going to leave clues to your identity, why bother being anonymous in the first place? Why even go to RP!S--just contact the people your secret is aimed at and be done with it. Stupid games like that frustrate me and I guess that with the anon concrit meme I didn't feel like playing. I mean, I wanted the feedback and criticism and appreciate what I got, but I didn't want to pretend to be not-me when leaving honest and genuine criticism for people I like and/or respect.
That's not to say I blame the people who were anonymous for that. Being upfront with criticism is hard and since I am a relative newcomer, I can understand people being uncertain about how I'd take crit. Also, there are a few people who hadn't pinged in that I would have left anon crit for (no, not to be mean) for that same reason; but it still comes down to me not being sure how they would take it and/or not knowing them well-enough to say something with my face on.
I guess the bottom line is that while I appreciate the anon concrit meme as a way to get feeback and whatall, I'm uncomfortable using it myself for anyone that I thread with on a more-than-casual basis. And I worry that people who were anonymous with me were doing so because they weren't certain if I could take concrit responsibly.
Wow. That is a lot of words for something so simple.
I'll admit, the main crit I did get didn't feel like it was someone who 'knew' me well (s/he said s/he avoided pinging Karla, for example). And I'd say that two-thirds of it were good and useful concrit. Some of it came up in an IC meme and I took it as OOC concrit as well. Karla needs to be less absorbed in her own world, this is true. Part of that absorption is played for effect (she's 15, of course she's self-absorbed and also to show how much of her worldview is different, dominated by her home, and that, for all her fun and friends here, she will never be wholly of this world), but I freely admit that I can go overboard and need to tone it down a bit. The bit I didn't think was useful was:
Also, she's a very intimidating Popular Girl, which makes me, at least, severely uncomfortable with pinging her because dealing with Karla also means dealing with all her friends if there's something that goes down that's not Light and Fun. I don't know what can be done about that, honestly, as it's IC for friends to defend friends, but it's definitely one of the reasons I avoid pinging her. I don't want to deal with spill over from one conversation that offends Karla reflecting back on my character from other characters my kids could get along with just fine.
Mostly, I'm just not entirely sure what to do with it? I know that the poster tried to clarify it a little further in another comment, saying that she was intimidated to start a conversation with Karla because Karla and her friends are intimidating, but...again, still not sure what to do with this. It bothers me on three levels:
1. I disagree with it
Is Karla intimidating to talk to? Probably. She smart, she's powerful, she doesn't hold back. Does Karla have several powerful and intimidating friends? Absolutely. But there have been several concrete IC interactions with people that shows Karla's scary and intimidating friends don't spend a lot of time making sure other people fall into line, kowtowing at Karla's feet. The fight with Jack is one such example; his mun came out and said that no one had anything to say to him after their fight and he spent time with Karla's best friends on the island after that. Karla's relationship with Arthur is antagonistic and while Merlin may raise the occasional, 'Arthur, she's not that bad,' point, it's generally accepted that Merlin likes her and Arthur doesn't. Rose (incorrectly listed as one of Karla's intimidating friends) just doesn't like Karla at all. Alex Karev likes harassing her, but mostly because he likes being a jerk. Karla and Azula are cordial enemies--and while they got that way because Karla was, in fact, freaking out on Dinah's behalf a) it wasn't an argument that started this; Azula physically injured Dinah, and b) I cleared it with both Dinah-mun and Azula-mun before sticking Karla's nose into things. I assume others would do the same in a similar situation, and that's not even taking into account the fact that I highly doubt any of Karla's friends would take a misspoken comment (or anything up to physical injury) as grounds for attacking someone else.
2. I don't know what to do with it
Even if I disagree with the validity, that doesn't make it less true for the poster. The trouble with 'I feel' is that it is how they feel and even if that's not how you intended something, that doesn't make their feelings any less valid. But what can I do? Make Karla less popular? Make her friends less intimidating? The poster admits that it's IC for friends to stick up for one another. Like I said, I would hope that in the case of someone about to go all crazy on another character on Karla's behalf, that person would contact me and the other player to make sure it's cool and not disrupting anything, but short of announcing that policy, I'm kind of at a loss. I don't think I play Karla as the kind of vindictive character who would set her friends against someone deliberately for not being nice (though if someone wants to chime in to the contrary, I'll listen) and I don't think I play her as someone who flies off the handle at one misspoken comment (ditto). Her fight with Jack, for example, came after they traded insults at each other for a few pings--he wasn't ambushed or taken by surprise.
I do appreciate that the poster made it seem to me as for of an FYI than something to work on. Because, seriously, what do I do? Which actually brings me to my third reason.
3. This isn't my problem
That sounds harsh, so bear with me a minute. The poster is basically saying, "I am uncomfortable with Karla being so popular. I don't want to thread with her because I worry that a misstep will bring down the wrath of her friends onto my character's head, even if, otherwise, our characters would get along fine."
Again, I'd say that's a legitimate worry for someone to have. I may disagree that it's a legitimate worry to have about Karla, but I can see where it could be intimidating for someone. However, the poster's discomfort with the possible behavior of other people's characters has nothing to do with me. If the concern was "I'm worried that Karla will snap at my character because I don't know your canon" (which was the crit in the paragraph above this one) or "I'm worried that Karla will use her influence to turn people against my characters," that would give me something to work with, or at least respond to. But someone else's feelings aren't something I can fix, especially when they're linked to things I can't control.
The comment is elaborated upon further in a second comment:
The idea of starting the fight in that case, if the other character isn't friends with any of the three (which none of mine are, actually), is a bit like the idea of starting an avalanche.
Which... pretty much means I'm chickenshit and absolutely terrified of causing a fight that's going to bring that much intimidation down on my head. Which is more something, I suppose, to keep in mind than anything to fix precisely.
The poster is absolutely right. That isn't something I can fix. Again, the problem doesn't seem so much concern about starting a fight with Karla as the reactions of her friends. So what can I do? I mean, I could make Karla calm and sweet, so no one has to worry about her getting mad ever, but that would be so OOC it's laughable. Canonically, Karla has a temper and is called a bitch by multiple people in canon; I make it a point to mention that in her info posts. In fact, I worry that I'm playing her nicer than she should be because she does have so many friends. And while I may as for a courtesy head's up, I won't interfere with how other people play their characters or with their personal interactions with others.
So, seriously, what do I do with this?
I appreciate someone telling me that they're intimidated by the idea with threading with me which is why they don't, but it doesn't help me without knowing who that person is. I'm a little resentful that someone doesn't want to thread because of what someone else might do, but, like I said above, I can grok the idea in the abstract, if not in the specifics.
If someone wants to respond here anonymously, feel free. Like I said, I'm willing to take the trade-off between concrit and knowing who says what. IP logging of anonymous comments is now off. I've also left a link to this journal in a comment to the poster of the quote in question. I think that's the fair thing to do.
I have a low-level discomfort with the anon concrit meme. However, I think it is a good idea to have it, because people need a safe space to offer suggestions and criticisms and not everyone is comfortable doing it with their 'face' on. Because I want concrit, their comfort trumps my discomfort, which is why, after much hemming and hawing, I signed up. And my discomfort doesn't come from a fear of people using the shield of anonymity to be a jackass and say hurtful things (much); I trust the people in FH to be as kind as they can while still being helpful. This may be a foolish assumption on my part, but until I'm proven wrong, it's there.
It's more that I'm uncomfortable with not what was said, but the need to be anonymous while saying it. It makes me wonder if I come off as unapproachable with criticism or something. I understand, intellectually, that some people might only be comfortable leaving criticism when they can do so anonymously, but, dammit, this is my LJ and if I wanna take things a certain way, I can.
Hmm, let me back up a moment. I didn't leave any criticism for anyone during the meme. I thought about doing so once or twice--even got halfway through a post before deleting it--but decided not to. And the reason was, specifically, the format. The people I had criticism for, I considered a 'friend,' or, at least friendly enough where I felt that I didn't need to be anonymous to leave criticism. In fact, it felt odd to leave criticism anonymously, because I felt (and this is purely me, folks) that it signified a lack of trust on my part. That I was worried about the reaction they'd have to my criticism and didn't want to deal with that.
So, then I thought about responding with my 'face' on, so to speak, and again was stymied, this time by an uncertainty about the rules and proper etiquette of the situation. If I was comfortable enough to leave concrit while logged in, was this really the proper venue to do so? Would it be better to contact them privately and discuss things? Would they be offended if I left the crit there, since I wasn't anonymous? I know other people left comments while logged in, but I still feel like I'm testing the waters. In the comment I had started typing out, the first two paragraphs were me basically saying: "I'm anonymous because that's the point of the meme; if you want to know who I am, I'll tell you; and I thought of this crit because of the meme, not because it's been something I've been worried about and obsessing over for awhile now." Which is another concern of mine: if people have been waiting for the opportunity to be anonymous, how long have they been holding this stuff in? I would far prefer to hear, "Hey, this thing you did bugged me" ten seconds after I did it then try to figure out what someone is referencing from several weeks or months ago.
Which, really just means I need to put up an HMD post, but whatever.
Another reason I feel stupid putting up anonymous crit is that I'm pretty sure whoever I'm talking to will be able to guess who I am anyway. It's like reading roleplaysecrets, when the posters are all "Obvious Anon is Obvious, teehee!" which just annoys me. If you're going to leave clues to your identity, why bother being anonymous in the first place? Why even go to RP!S--just contact the people your secret is aimed at and be done with it. Stupid games like that frustrate me and I guess that with the anon concrit meme I didn't feel like playing. I mean, I wanted the feedback and criticism and appreciate what I got, but I didn't want to pretend to be not-me when leaving honest and genuine criticism for people I like and/or respect.
That's not to say I blame the people who were anonymous for that. Being upfront with criticism is hard and since I am a relative newcomer, I can understand people being uncertain about how I'd take crit. Also, there are a few people who hadn't pinged in that I would have left anon crit for (no, not to be mean) for that same reason; but it still comes down to me not being sure how they would take it and/or not knowing them well-enough to say something with my face on.
I guess the bottom line is that while I appreciate the anon concrit meme as a way to get feeback and whatall, I'm uncomfortable using it myself for anyone that I thread with on a more-than-casual basis. And I worry that people who were anonymous with me were doing so because they weren't certain if I could take concrit responsibly.
Wow. That is a lot of words for something so simple.
I'll admit, the main crit I did get didn't feel like it was someone who 'knew' me well (s/he said s/he avoided pinging Karla, for example). And I'd say that two-thirds of it were good and useful concrit. Some of it came up in an IC meme and I took it as OOC concrit as well. Karla needs to be less absorbed in her own world, this is true. Part of that absorption is played for effect (she's 15, of course she's self-absorbed and also to show how much of her worldview is different, dominated by her home, and that, for all her fun and friends here, she will never be wholly of this world), but I freely admit that I can go overboard and need to tone it down a bit. The bit I didn't think was useful was:
Also, she's a very intimidating Popular Girl, which makes me, at least, severely uncomfortable with pinging her because dealing with Karla also means dealing with all her friends if there's something that goes down that's not Light and Fun. I don't know what can be done about that, honestly, as it's IC for friends to defend friends, but it's definitely one of the reasons I avoid pinging her. I don't want to deal with spill over from one conversation that offends Karla reflecting back on my character from other characters my kids could get along with just fine.
Mostly, I'm just not entirely sure what to do with it? I know that the poster tried to clarify it a little further in another comment, saying that she was intimidated to start a conversation with Karla because Karla and her friends are intimidating, but...again, still not sure what to do with this. It bothers me on three levels:
1. I disagree with it
Is Karla intimidating to talk to? Probably. She smart, she's powerful, she doesn't hold back. Does Karla have several powerful and intimidating friends? Absolutely. But there have been several concrete IC interactions with people that shows Karla's scary and intimidating friends don't spend a lot of time making sure other people fall into line, kowtowing at Karla's feet. The fight with Jack is one such example; his mun came out and said that no one had anything to say to him after their fight and he spent time with Karla's best friends on the island after that. Karla's relationship with Arthur is antagonistic and while Merlin may raise the occasional, 'Arthur, she's not that bad,' point, it's generally accepted that Merlin likes her and Arthur doesn't. Rose (incorrectly listed as one of Karla's intimidating friends) just doesn't like Karla at all. Alex Karev likes harassing her, but mostly because he likes being a jerk. Karla and Azula are cordial enemies--and while they got that way because Karla was, in fact, freaking out on Dinah's behalf a) it wasn't an argument that started this; Azula physically injured Dinah, and b) I cleared it with both Dinah-mun and Azula-mun before sticking Karla's nose into things. I assume others would do the same in a similar situation, and that's not even taking into account the fact that I highly doubt any of Karla's friends would take a misspoken comment (or anything up to physical injury) as grounds for attacking someone else.
2. I don't know what to do with it
Even if I disagree with the validity, that doesn't make it less true for the poster. The trouble with 'I feel' is that it is how they feel and even if that's not how you intended something, that doesn't make their feelings any less valid. But what can I do? Make Karla less popular? Make her friends less intimidating? The poster admits that it's IC for friends to stick up for one another. Like I said, I would hope that in the case of someone about to go all crazy on another character on Karla's behalf, that person would contact me and the other player to make sure it's cool and not disrupting anything, but short of announcing that policy, I'm kind of at a loss. I don't think I play Karla as the kind of vindictive character who would set her friends against someone deliberately for not being nice (though if someone wants to chime in to the contrary, I'll listen) and I don't think I play her as someone who flies off the handle at one misspoken comment (ditto). Her fight with Jack, for example, came after they traded insults at each other for a few pings--he wasn't ambushed or taken by surprise.
I do appreciate that the poster made it seem to me as for of an FYI than something to work on. Because, seriously, what do I do? Which actually brings me to my third reason.
3. This isn't my problem
That sounds harsh, so bear with me a minute. The poster is basically saying, "I am uncomfortable with Karla being so popular. I don't want to thread with her because I worry that a misstep will bring down the wrath of her friends onto my character's head, even if, otherwise, our characters would get along fine."
Again, I'd say that's a legitimate worry for someone to have. I may disagree that it's a legitimate worry to have about Karla, but I can see where it could be intimidating for someone. However, the poster's discomfort with the possible behavior of other people's characters has nothing to do with me. If the concern was "I'm worried that Karla will snap at my character because I don't know your canon" (which was the crit in the paragraph above this one) or "I'm worried that Karla will use her influence to turn people against my characters," that would give me something to work with, or at least respond to. But someone else's feelings aren't something I can fix, especially when they're linked to things I can't control.
The comment is elaborated upon further in a second comment:
The idea of starting the fight in that case, if the other character isn't friends with any of the three (which none of mine are, actually), is a bit like the idea of starting an avalanche.
Which... pretty much means I'm chickenshit and absolutely terrified of causing a fight that's going to bring that much intimidation down on my head. Which is more something, I suppose, to keep in mind than anything to fix precisely.
The poster is absolutely right. That isn't something I can fix. Again, the problem doesn't seem so much concern about starting a fight with Karla as the reactions of her friends. So what can I do? I mean, I could make Karla calm and sweet, so no one has to worry about her getting mad ever, but that would be so OOC it's laughable. Canonically, Karla has a temper and is called a bitch by multiple people in canon; I make it a point to mention that in her info posts. In fact, I worry that I'm playing her nicer than she should be because she does have so many friends. And while I may as for a courtesy head's up, I won't interfere with how other people play their characters or with their personal interactions with others.
So, seriously, what do I do with this?
I appreciate someone telling me that they're intimidated by the idea with threading with me which is why they don't, but it doesn't help me without knowing who that person is. I'm a little resentful that someone doesn't want to thread because of what someone else might do, but, like I said above, I can grok the idea in the abstract, if not in the specifics.
If someone wants to respond here anonymously, feel free. Like I said, I'm willing to take the trade-off between concrit and knowing who says what. IP logging of anonymous comments is now off. I've also left a link to this journal in a comment to the poster of the quote in question. I think that's the fair thing to do.