Short answer: moral NIMBYism. It's like blocking one's ears and eyes: "If we don't let gays get married, then they'll see the error of their ways!"
Longer answer: gay marriage squicks me out a little, and more importantly, is an offense against God, but, as nightskyre much more eloquently said in his post, I make an effort NOT to impose so-called-"Christian" morals on my fellow citizens.
It's also what sets me apart from most so-called "fundamentalists", who want us to be a "Christian nation".
When topics like this come up in politics, I have to remind myself that it's about giving equal protection to people who I don't agree with, not about forcing people to (externally, at least) do what's right. Which is really what the two sides of this issue come down to - just like "pro-choice" and "pro-life", they're not truly opposite positions, they just have opposite effects.
wish more fundamentalists were like you. It's still all weird to me, though.
"Hi, your thoughts on sexuality squick me. God finds it abominable, and it's one of the reasons you'll be burning in eternal torment. Really, everything that you think important is a wretched hubris -- I can't even give you credit for the things you get right because you do it for the wrong reasons. You're a failure as a human being. But let's not talk about that. Instead hang out in this living room, and let's chat all nice-nice about this and that."
Sorry to bomb-throw, especially in someone else's journal. I just... I dunno, it really bugs me. I can play it all cool and social too. I can sit down with, say, you and pretend that you don't think that everything I hold dear is superficial and that my life as it stands is a failure. It seems... dishonest, somehow. Am I misrepresenting matters?
To be fair, I only mention that gay marriage squicks me out to be completely honest about my reaction. I know rationally that it SHOULDN'T, but I still have a gut reaction about it. That part, I'm working on overcoming.
I think you might understand the rest of my position better if I tell you that I view EVERYONE in that light - including myself. I'm a failure as a human being, too. If God had not saved me and changed me, I would be damned like everyone else, because I have the same human tendencies and do the same things wrong that everyone else does. Is that changing? Yes, (Christianese for it is "sanctification", or becoming holy/ becoming more like God), but veeerrrry slowly. And the "better" I get, the more I realize how bad I was to begin with.
In short, I can play well with others because I recognize we're fundamentally the same. I'm not better than you.
Do I want other people to know they're doing the wrong thing, and that they're going to hell unless they turn to God? Of course. Do I want them to go to hell? Of course not
( ... )
I mean, don't get me wrong. I like you guys. You're fun to be around, and there's plenty of common ground for discussion. Let's face it, you're better conversationalists than I am.
I find it odd that people who disrespect each other on such a fundamental level can enjoy each other's company. Psychology is dildos.
I find it odd that people who disrespect each other on such a fundamental level can enjoy each other's company.
I'd argue over the word "disrespect." Sure we don't agree on those fundamental levels, but I think respect is what makes these kinds of discussions possible.
That's not a particularly bad definition for respect. It's like a protocol of etiquette that lets everyone get along -- not just in a for-appearances way, but actually get along in a comfortable and friendly way.
You know that scene in A Fish Called Wanda where John Cleese is standing naked before a small family, and they're just chatting? I feel like that's what you're calling respect, here.
"We're both going to ignore the fact that I'm naked in your living room and have a chat."
"We're going to ignore the fact that you think that I'm going to hell, that the things most important to me are superficial, and that you would glorify God if He killed some of my best friends... and have a chat."
You know, I'm sorry. This is my hang-up, not yours. It's impossibly rude for me to impose this discussion on you. It's just one of those topics that can ruin a whole day.
Longer answer: gay marriage squicks me out a little, and more importantly, is an offense against God, but, as nightskyre much more eloquently said in his post, I make an effort NOT to impose so-called-"Christian" morals on my fellow citizens.
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And that is what I consider most important.
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When topics like this come up in politics, I have to remind myself that it's about giving equal protection to people who I don't agree with, not about forcing people to (externally, at least) do what's right. Which is really what the two sides of this issue come down to - just like "pro-choice" and "pro-life", they're not truly opposite positions, they just have opposite effects.
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"Hi, your thoughts on sexuality squick me. God finds it abominable, and it's one of the reasons you'll be burning in eternal torment. Really, everything that you think important is a wretched hubris -- I can't even give you credit for the things you get right because you do it for the wrong reasons. You're a failure as a human being. But let's not talk about that. Instead hang out in this living room, and let's chat all nice-nice about this and that."
Sorry to bomb-throw, especially in someone else's journal. I just... I dunno, it really bugs me. I can play it all cool and social too. I can sit down with, say, you and pretend that you don't think that everything I hold dear is superficial and that my life as it stands is a failure. It seems... dishonest, somehow. Am I misrepresenting matters?
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I think you might understand the rest of my position better if I tell you that I view EVERYONE in that light - including myself. I'm a failure as a human being, too. If God had not saved me and changed me, I would be damned like everyone else, because I have the same human tendencies and do the same things wrong that everyone else does. Is that changing? Yes, (Christianese for it is "sanctification", or becoming holy/ becoming more like God), but veeerrrry slowly. And the "better" I get, the more I realize how bad I was to begin with.
In short, I can play well with others because I recognize we're fundamentally the same. I'm not better than you.
Do I want other people to know they're doing the wrong thing, and that they're going to hell unless they turn to God? Of course. Do I want them to go to hell? Of course not ( ... )
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I find it odd that people who disrespect each other on such a fundamental level can enjoy each other's company. Psychology is dildos.
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I'd argue over the word "disrespect." Sure we don't agree on those fundamental levels, but I think respect is what makes these kinds of discussions possible.
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You know that scene in A Fish Called Wanda where John Cleese is standing naked before a small family, and they're just chatting? I feel like that's what you're calling respect, here.
"We're both going to ignore the fact that I'm naked in your living room and have a chat."
"We're going to ignore the fact that you think that I'm going to hell, that the things most important to me are superficial, and that you would glorify God if He killed some of my best friends... and have a chat."
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