(no subject)
Hiya
I haven't decided if this is going to devolved into an actual update. I don't actually think I have much to update on (though I am suppose to get my 90 day review this week, most likely today, and I'm worried about that...more on that when I get my review).
Anyway, over in weirdjews2 someone linked to this article Maariv, Neshot Hare'alah (Women of the Veil) .
Now I can read Hebrew, but I don't understand Hebrew (which is a subtitle difference). So the article was gibberish. Someone in the Weird Jews community linked me to this site: Mom in Israel - Hyper-Tzniut which has translated and summed up, in English, parts of the article.
Basically what the article is talking about is a movement dubbed Hyper Tzniut (the link takes you to all of the entries Mom in Israel has made about the subject). Tzniut translates basically as modesty.
In normal Orthodox Judaism, it is considered modest to cover your ankles, wrists, hair, and neck. This is why, if you go to the North Side of Chicago/Evanston/Skokie area (about three blocks from where my mom lives) you see all of these women and men dressed very formally no matter what time of the day or year. Those are technically Hasidic Jews, but they hold very fast to the ideas of Tzniut.
I think it says something when the Hasidic Community thinks those that pracitice Hyper-Tzniut are crazy...
Anyway, basically Hyper-Tzniut is what most Arab Cultures practice. Veiling the face, making the female form hard to make out, etc. Except this is extreme even by their standards. Now Israel is not a cold place, even in the most extreme winter it only dips to about 40F, yet these women are wearing six, seven, eight plus layers of clothing. Some of them cover BOTH eyes and let their kids guide them.
The leader of the movement, apparently, doesn't even talk to her kids most days. She only talks for about four hours a day, and then it's with her female clients (though the article mentions that while the reporter was there, they noticed her giving her son directions). In fact, from the sounds of it, she doesn't talk to her husband.
Now I'm not one that keeps a lot of Jewish Traditions. Yes we do Shabbat now (most weeks...), we do High Holy Days. I light a Remembrance Candle for my father every year, though I do it on the day he died by the Roman Calendar rather then by the Jewish Calendar. But we dont' keep kosher (except maybe once a week a year when I'm at my grandparents house), I don't cover my hair, and while I've drifted away from wearing shorts, I still don't wear skirts that often, and it's even rarer for me to wear tights or stockings (though I do for Viola...).
Anyway, this movement scares me. Israel is a different beast, and just a few people who routinely do one thing can actually influence whole NEIGHBORHOODS. It's mentioned somewhere (I think its on the blog) that 10 years ago, in Haredi communities only girls over 12 would wear tights. Now if a girl over the age of 2 does not, they risk being shunned by the community. Why? Because a minority started to dress their kids that way, and it stuck.
Really, if you think back to High School and Middle School, where that one person would do something 'cool' and then everyone had to copy them or no longer be cool (okay, so maybe more stereotypical high school then reality but you get the idea), it's like that. One group does something, and then someone goes "Holy Shit! We should be doing that to!" And soon the whole community does it.
I have to admit, I'm worried about the children. If you have a group of children who grow up in this society, whose MOTHER doesn't really talk to them or show them the same type of affection, who have to lead their mother around blindly, what kind of adults are they going to grow up to be? Someone pointed out in one of the comments, that you make two types: either a group that goes away from Judaism, or a group that becomes super extreme. Judaism has enough extremist in Israel, we don't need anymore.
I'm a bit worried about the society as well. Judaism has made leaps and bounds in egaliterism, even among the Orthodox and Hasidic communities. In fact, even in the Biblical era, women had more rights in Judaism then in Christianity. Women can get a divorce and have a marriage contract that states that if the marriage should end, the woman gets X amount of money and such.
But this is a severe backslide. This is problematic in the Middle East, but that is a society that is changing, even while women still choose to dress this way. I'm all for freedom of CHOICE, but something about this choice rubs me wrong. Maybe because when I think Jew I don't think of veils and ten layers of clothing. Actually only Islam makes me think 'veils', even knowing that many don't wear veils and nothing makes me think 10 layers of clothing.
I can say that this risks being bad for Jews the world over. Jews play nice, and we present a nice outside front, but there are alot of conflicts between Hasidic and Orthodox, Orthodox and everything that isn't, Conservative and Reform, and even Reform and Reconstructions (which is funny because they often get lumped together), to say nothing of the Haredi and everything that isn't. In the US, we have "Community" Temples that are affected by the community and blend all of those together. I don't think they exist in Israel.
Reformed and Reconstructions are often not considered 'real Jews' by the Orthodox communities, in part, because there is no enforcement of Tzniut. The Conservative Movement at least pays it lip service. The Reformed and Reconstructionists don't even do that.
So what happens when the so-called 'Real Jews' all dress in veils in Israel. Does that mean that the American Orthodox Movement are no longer 'Real Jews'? The Chasidic Communities that don't adapt (because I don't think many of them will)? The Conservative Movement?
Do I think this will happen? Not for a number of years. The Haredi community is not mainstream Judaism, so it might not even spill over. Many of the communities are already rejecting the idea of Hyper-Tzniut. But it is still something to keep an eye on. It is still a worrisome movement. Or maybe that's just the Feminist in me talking.
---
*Re: Haredi and Hasidic Judaism. They aren't quite interchangeable though most Hasidic groups are a part of the Haredi Movement. Haredi Judaism at Wikipedia explains better then I could. In addition, Jewish Denominations talk better about the different believe systems and the like, and Tzniut talks about the Modesty laws.
Later
~Shadow
I haven't decided if this is going to devolved into an actual update. I don't actually think I have much to update on (though I am suppose to get my 90 day review this week, most likely today, and I'm worried about that...more on that when I get my review).
Anyway, over in weirdjews2 someone linked to this article Maariv, Neshot Hare'alah (Women of the Veil) .
Now I can read Hebrew, but I don't understand Hebrew (which is a subtitle difference). So the article was gibberish. Someone in the Weird Jews community linked me to this site: Mom in Israel - Hyper-Tzniut which has translated and summed up, in English, parts of the article.
Basically what the article is talking about is a movement dubbed Hyper Tzniut (the link takes you to all of the entries Mom in Israel has made about the subject). Tzniut translates basically as modesty.
In normal Orthodox Judaism, it is considered modest to cover your ankles, wrists, hair, and neck. This is why, if you go to the North Side of Chicago/Evanston/Skokie area (about three blocks from where my mom lives) you see all of these women and men dressed very formally no matter what time of the day or year. Those are technically Hasidic Jews, but they hold very fast to the ideas of Tzniut.
I think it says something when the Hasidic Community thinks those that pracitice Hyper-Tzniut are crazy...
Anyway, basically Hyper-Tzniut is what most Arab Cultures practice. Veiling the face, making the female form hard to make out, etc. Except this is extreme even by their standards. Now Israel is not a cold place, even in the most extreme winter it only dips to about 40F, yet these women are wearing six, seven, eight plus layers of clothing. Some of them cover BOTH eyes and let their kids guide them.
The leader of the movement, apparently, doesn't even talk to her kids most days. She only talks for about four hours a day, and then it's with her female clients (though the article mentions that while the reporter was there, they noticed her giving her son directions). In fact, from the sounds of it, she doesn't talk to her husband.
Now I'm not one that keeps a lot of Jewish Traditions. Yes we do Shabbat now (most weeks...), we do High Holy Days. I light a Remembrance Candle for my father every year, though I do it on the day he died by the Roman Calendar rather then by the Jewish Calendar. But we dont' keep kosher (except maybe once a week a year when I'm at my grandparents house), I don't cover my hair, and while I've drifted away from wearing shorts, I still don't wear skirts that often, and it's even rarer for me to wear tights or stockings (though I do for Viola...).
Anyway, this movement scares me. Israel is a different beast, and just a few people who routinely do one thing can actually influence whole NEIGHBORHOODS. It's mentioned somewhere (I think its on the blog) that 10 years ago, in Haredi communities only girls over 12 would wear tights. Now if a girl over the age of 2 does not, they risk being shunned by the community. Why? Because a minority started to dress their kids that way, and it stuck.
Really, if you think back to High School and Middle School, where that one person would do something 'cool' and then everyone had to copy them or no longer be cool (okay, so maybe more stereotypical high school then reality but you get the idea), it's like that. One group does something, and then someone goes "Holy Shit! We should be doing that to!" And soon the whole community does it.
I have to admit, I'm worried about the children. If you have a group of children who grow up in this society, whose MOTHER doesn't really talk to them or show them the same type of affection, who have to lead their mother around blindly, what kind of adults are they going to grow up to be? Someone pointed out in one of the comments, that you make two types: either a group that goes away from Judaism, or a group that becomes super extreme. Judaism has enough extremist in Israel, we don't need anymore.
I'm a bit worried about the society as well. Judaism has made leaps and bounds in egaliterism, even among the Orthodox and Hasidic communities. In fact, even in the Biblical era, women had more rights in Judaism then in Christianity. Women can get a divorce and have a marriage contract that states that if the marriage should end, the woman gets X amount of money and such.
But this is a severe backslide. This is problematic in the Middle East, but that is a society that is changing, even while women still choose to dress this way. I'm all for freedom of CHOICE, but something about this choice rubs me wrong. Maybe because when I think Jew I don't think of veils and ten layers of clothing. Actually only Islam makes me think 'veils', even knowing that many don't wear veils and nothing makes me think 10 layers of clothing.
I can say that this risks being bad for Jews the world over. Jews play nice, and we present a nice outside front, but there are alot of conflicts between Hasidic and Orthodox, Orthodox and everything that isn't, Conservative and Reform, and even Reform and Reconstructions (which is funny because they often get lumped together), to say nothing of the Haredi and everything that isn't. In the US, we have "Community" Temples that are affected by the community and blend all of those together. I don't think they exist in Israel.
Reformed and Reconstructions are often not considered 'real Jews' by the Orthodox communities, in part, because there is no enforcement of Tzniut. The Conservative Movement at least pays it lip service. The Reformed and Reconstructionists don't even do that.
So what happens when the so-called 'Real Jews' all dress in veils in Israel. Does that mean that the American Orthodox Movement are no longer 'Real Jews'? The Chasidic Communities that don't adapt (because I don't think many of them will)? The Conservative Movement?
Do I think this will happen? Not for a number of years. The Haredi community is not mainstream Judaism, so it might not even spill over. Many of the communities are already rejecting the idea of Hyper-Tzniut. But it is still something to keep an eye on. It is still a worrisome movement. Or maybe that's just the Feminist in me talking.
---
*Re: Haredi and Hasidic Judaism. They aren't quite interchangeable though most Hasidic groups are a part of the Haredi Movement. Haredi Judaism at Wikipedia explains better then I could. In addition, Jewish Denominations talk better about the different believe systems and the like, and Tzniut talks about the Modesty laws.
Later
~Shadow