Discussion Post: Mary and John in “His Last Vow”

[shadowfireflame]

For just the squeeing, please see this post. And now for a little discussion of Mary and John-related things in this episode:

Comments

[splix]

I hope you're right about all this! I decided to stop wangsting about the stuff I didn't like, and I feel better about it. I like your calm, reasoned approach. I really, really hope the show stretches out enough to show the character development you posit.

[shadowfireflame]

Well, I hope so as well, obviously, but I think yours is the right approach of making the decision to enjoy it even though it will never be perfect. :)

[mariole]

I like your John disconnect table. I'm not angry with John as so many other people; I'm angry with the writers having Sherlock not be the smartest man in the room this series. I'm happy to have development; it's illogic I can't stomach.

Oh, well. We'll find out in several years what they intend to do. :)

[shadowfireflame]

Oh goodness, I hope it's sooner than several years! But yes, best not to get our hopes up...

[daasgrrl]

Genuine question, because I haven't been reading a lot of meta closely - people are upset that John isn't quite reacting to Sherlock as much as expected. Is that the main source of unhappiness? Perhaps some of that month is honeymoon time? I feel the crucial issue of discontent is going a bit over my head, although I can see how much John misses his wild times with Sherlock from his behaviour.

[shadowfireflame]

I think the main source of upset for this episode is that toward the end, John seems so cold on the airport runway when it was the last time he would have seen Sherlock, and all they do is give a handshake. I've read quite a bit of meta explaining this one, though, and am satisfied. Plus it wasn't really the last time they'd see each other, so I'm not inclined to be sad about that moment.

But with regard to the month issue--I guess it's a bit upsetting because it's not clarified why they haven't seen each other in a month. When last we saw John and Sherlock in "The Sign of Three," Sherlock was leaving the wedding early and John was swearing up and down that nothing would change between them. But here it's been a month and they haven't communicated. Perhaps it was honeymoon time (I think this is a likely part of it), perhaps it was Sherlock deliberately not getting into contact due to being on a case (and not wanting John to see him on drugs?), perhaps it was something else. That ambiguity is a bit upsetting though. That's what I

[daasgrrl]

I fear I may be a little insensitive on the issue, but I watched the goodbye again, and all I see is two men desperately controlling their emotions. I *love* that. To me that kind of repression cuts so much deeper than if they'd flung themselves all over each other and had a cry. This is where I and much of fandom part ways (in opinion terms) I suspect *g*

And I think it's just that, yeah, John was on honeymoon, and then settling back into London, and the prospect of a baby, and it's easy for a month to go by without catching up, imo. These people have jobs, and lives, and... John doesn't want to make Sherlock the centre of his universe again, partly because he has Mary, partly because of what he did, and I get that.

Sorry - I'm really just babbling my bemusement at you; nothing intended personally towards you or anyone else!

[shadowfireflame]

Oh, no, I completely agree (after having re-watched the scene). The first time I thought it was maybe a bit repressed, but then I realized that the repression is the point. I think maybe the first time I was expecting another hug? And since Sherlock had just thrown away his life again it seemed hard of John to not give him that hug. But now I see how melodramatic that would have been. :)

I just want everyone to be happy and not repressed! But they wouldn't be British men had that happened, would they. :D

[shadowfireflame]

I loved the bolt-holes as well, and Anderson's role in the episode.

Ooh, I think Sherlock can be both his own living legend and human. But I agree he's more fun when he's being ridiculous. But all those contradictions are what make me love him. :)

I felt a lot better about the episode after reading some of the metas (I've linked my favorites at the bottom of this post) by excellent authors in this fandom who are a lot smarter than I am and explain everything nicely. :)

[dioscureantwins]

I really don't see why anyone would have problems with John in this episode. The goodbye at the airport totally worked for me, two British blokes saying goodbye to each other, realising full well they'll never see each other again. Superb acting and emotionally highly satisfying and essentially so much better than John and Sherlock continually telling each other how much they love each other.

That they had to bring Jim back pretty much spoiled the scene for me though. Sometimes an open ending works so much better.

[shadowfireflame]

I've come to appreciate the airport scene a lot more after re-watching it and reading things about it, so I really appreciate your thoughts on the scene. "Two British blokes," oh, that's so right. Plus, it wasn't the last time they would see each other after all, so I'm not inclined to be sad about that scene.

As for Jim, obviously I'm just speculating, but I'd say that he's not actually returning and it's just somebody new using his image to taunt Sherlock. Bringing Moriarty back is completely against the philosophy of the show, which is to do different things, make things grow and change, so I doubt we'll actually get to see him again alive. He can live on in the scary part of Sherlock's mind palace. :)