Canon vs. Fanon, part 10: Pre-series Daniel

[sg_fignewton]

Finally, the post so many of you have been nagging me about asking for: Pre-series Daniel!

Backstory is a crucial part of understanding and writing a character. When you consider some of the more iconic fictional characters, nearly all of them reference pivotal moments in the hero's childhood or past to help us understand the driving force behind

Comments

[moonshayde]

There has never been any suggestion that the people of Abydos looked upon Daniel as "something of a deity," although there was surely some hero-worship going on, as Daniel himself tells Jack on that first evening back from Abydos.

This has been hinted at but never explicitly stated. it took me by susprise when I first saw it.

S6's Full Circle. Teal'c and that kid are talking and it is made to sound that the kid saw Daniel as a god. Teal'c wasn't too happy about it.

*off to read the rest*

[sg_fignewton]

Oooh, good catch, that. Except that the press release is clearly either pre-series entirely or sometime in the first season or two. And to be fair, the perception of Daniel as divine was after ascension, not for his role in destroying Ra.

[moonshayde]

Oh I know. I'm just saying that it's a theme that was followed up in later seasons. And I believe in COTG Daniel mentioned something about Sha're keeping him grounded. It was implied that the locals did treat him differently (like you said, hero-worship) but that could easily slip into godliness. They were sort of seen as brought from Ra in the movie.

[sg_fignewton]

They were sort of seen as brought from Ra in the movie.

But that was fully and forcibly debunked, by both Daniel and Sha'uri.

I do agree with you, though, that the people of Abydos might warp their reverence for Daniel into something more. Doesn't make the press release any more accurate, though! :)

[moonshayde]

I am replying as I go...

Demons, S3. he could speak/read Old English.

[sg_fignewton]

Having fun, are you? :)

Speaking from my own experience, it is ever so much easier to read a foreign language than to speak it. I'm trying to remember if he translated aloud or actually read the words aloud, then translated them. In either case... Hm. Does Old English qualify as a language? I already discounted Latin because is he didn't know that "loci" meant "location" in The Fifth Race, he probably went straight to studying Ancient. :)

[moonshayde]

He spoke it, sort of. That would be MS mumbled and rattling it off as Daniel. I couldn't understand a word of it. By the look on Jack's face, he couldn't either.

[abyssinia4077]

I already discounted Latin because is he didn't know that "loci" meant "location" in The Fifth Race, he probably went straight to studying Ancient. :)

Except, I can't believe Daniel wouldn't have encountered Latin - I mean, first off - linguistics, and second off - he speaks other romance languages. And once he connected that it was latin (and he did ID it) he figured it out pretty quickly.
Maybe just something he studied so long ago and isn't his specialty (he isn't going to find it spoken and he focuses on other aspects of ancient history and the Ancient writing doesn't look like latin) so it took him longer to catch on?

[abyssinia4077]

YAYAYAY! (I was excited for this post).

You're right - they really don't give us much, do they?

"brainy" and "scientist" are legitimate labels for Daniel, but "soft" and "clumsy," despite fanon's frequent suggestions to the contrary, are not.
Is *this* where that comes from? I keep seeing fanfics refer to Daniel as clumsy (dropping things, tripping over things) and I always scratch my head because I never notice him being especially clumsy onscreen.

The only behavior that Daniel certifies for us as entirely in character for them is that his parents used to call him Danny when he was little.
I realize, as you're saying, the gamekeeper was creating their actions - but he was also using the information in Daniel's brain to do so, so I think we should be able to assume that how his parent's behaved is somewhat on course with how Daniel remembers them. I thought it was interesting how quickly resentful Daniel was at his father - "he called me Danny, like I'm still a kid" - I could just be reading something into it though.

However,

[moonshayde]

Even if his parents did take him on digs (which I would find believable) archaeologists (especially the kind his parents seemed to be - PhDed, designing museum exhibits) spend a lot more time at "home" doing research and examining artifacts and writing grants than they do at actual digs, so it's unlikely Daniel bounced from dig to dig exclusively until they died.

Thank you! It annoys me to know end that it's thought of that Daniel and his parents were wolrd travelers. Doesn't work like that!

I get hyper about this subject, can you tell?

[abyssinia4077]

We've had this conversation before, haven't we? :)

I could believe they were world travelers - there certainly exist families who travel a lot and take young children along and I could believe Daniel's parents doing that to expose him to new places/cultures (and to keep doing what they like) but spending most of his time at digs? Doesn't sit right.

[moonshayde]

True, I guess I'm talking in the sense of what I get in most fanon: Daniel can't speak English until he's like 5 or 6 or something. I have difficulty swallowing that one. (No offense to those that write it.)

Even if Daniel's parents did travel a lot, it wouldn't be for extended periods of time. It just doesn't tend to work that way. I mean, there's a chance that it could, but for most anthroplogists and archaeologists I've know, even ones that are married to each other, they don't drag their kid everywhere. And many times the parents would switch off. Okay, you do your stuff at this time and I'll stay with the kid and I do my stuff during that time and you stay with the kid. That sort of thing.

But nothing states that I'm right here. it's just more likely than not.

It's nice to know I have people that agree with me, at leats in part ;)

[moonshayde]

People have Daniel know Danish? Nick was Dutch, not Danish

[sg_fignewton]

daniel would not have necessarily gotte n all his phd's at the same univ, either.

Oooh, good point. I didn't go through American colleges and a lot of the finer details are a bit lost to me.

[moonshayde]

Woohoo! *drives your comment count up even more*

Some universities allow for a double PhD. it's rare, but it can be done. Espeically if the fields are linked. And in the US, anthropology and archaeology are often under the same department. Linguitics can or may not be a related field. It depends on what kind of linguitics. But I've know people that do the anthropology/linguistics. And there is a such thing as linguistic anthropology. I've studied under some people like that. (Oh man so brilliant.)

For Daniel to have three PhDs? That's pushing it. It's likely that he did a dual PhD somewhere and another elsewhere.

And for him to have this all done by around 30? Man, you know he didn't do much else but get lost in studies. No wonder Sarah got pissed. And that relationships seems to have happened after he had nailed at least one of his degrees.

[sg_fignewton]

i think that when one is talking about fanfiction we need to be lenient in judging people as lazy or copycat when people use fanon. i mean, we're in a derivative form of literature, right? what's wrong with using fanon?

I do hope I haven't come across as overly judgmental, although I probably got a little snippy about the poor wee abused orphan fanon thing. Cliches exist because they're common, after all; and a good author can take the most common of cliches and make it real and fresh and interesting.

Like you, there are many parts of fanon I enjoy. I do think Daniel loves Egypt and speaks Arabic as fluently as a native. and I do agree that it's fun, sometimes, to be part of that collective whole.

But I want people to know that they're following fanon and not canon. If they're aware of that, and they want to use it anyway? That's fine by me. :)

[moonshayde]

I don't think this post is meant as a dig to anyone that uses certain kinds of fanon. (Though, I admit that it is a pet peeve of mine when I come across so many fics that do, but even I am guilty of it from time to time.) But I do think it's important to know the difference between fanon and canon. That way, both readers and writers alike know what is actuall from the show and what isn't. Then they can use that information to best read and write the fic of their choice.