(newly added white female)indyselsaSeptember 28 2008, 23:09:37 UTC
Perhaps mandate that people us a self-portrait icon? Eliminate all confusion before you even begin to read replies, and automatically ban anyone caught lying.
Re: (newly added white female)indyselsaSeptember 29 2008, 03:45:55 UTC
I'm new here, and I guess I did miss the point. My fault. I didn't mean to suggest a cure all to suddenly make a space safe, just a way to at least let members to know the demographics of who was making comments or posts. It's too easy to lie for it to be helpful, I guess, and just knowing who's saying something doesn't change a thing if someone spouts nonsense.
Honestly, from the little bit I've picked up in the past couple of days it sounds like this may really NEED to be a POC only zone. I was thrilled when karnythia posted in her journal that this Com was opening the doors temporarily, but just because it's a cool place doesn't mean I deserve to have a seat. If having non-POC takes away the feeling of safe-space for the people this community was created FOR (and it sounds like it's been abused enough that it justifiably DOES) then non-POC probably shouldn't be allowed to stay.
Re: (newly added white female)i_dreamed_i_wasSeptember 29 2008, 04:11:51 UTC
No, I know what you're saying. And I understand folks are discussing this being a POC-only space, and not knowing if people are POC can be an issue. But I don't get this impression this is about anyone "lying" (actually "pretending to be POC"), or that that is a big issue here. (In 3 years, I can't remember that happening, though I could be wrong.) It's just odd, b/c part of what has been happening this past week has been the opposite-- a WOC's photo used (elsewhere) to "prove" that she was "lying" about being a WOC (because she is light). In fact, that is why a lot of people are feeling uncomfortable in progressive spaces right now (although maybe not here). I guess what I'm saying is that there does seem to be a white paranoia and paternalism at work in the idea that POC are easily fooled by some mass of white people pretending to be POC for "cred," and your comment almost seemed to reflect that same belief, if in a more neutral way. So it was kinda off-putting to me-- I can only speak for myself. Like, we're not talking
( ... )
Re: (newly added white female)indyselsaSeptember 29 2008, 04:39:47 UTC
I heard about that, and combined with the mod post about the need for massive cuts I started wondering if my being here (not me, specifically, but a miscellaneous white person) would be harmful. I see how my comment came off white paranoia. It was born out of my lack of trust for the masses, especially on the internet, rather than a belief that POC would be easily fooled. My knee jerk reaction initially to the comments up thread was that POC, especially in a space like this, shouldn't have to waste even a second trying to decide if someone's telling the truth- but it sounds like that's never been an issue here. That must be what you get when you have dedicated mods who spend hours sifting through applications and thinning the ranks when needed. I'm really not used to a space where all members are decent people, this place is unique.
Re: (newly added white female)cadetsandkingsSeptember 30 2008, 03:44:05 UTC
If I can add to what you are saying (and I'm not at all sure I can)...
I'm also newly added and I also had a big questioning realization that maybe I should keep out of SNR. What's happened with the whole photo scenario understandably caused big ripples.
At the same time... feelings of security here and elsewhere probably ebb and flow with what is happening outside. So I feel like as long as SNR itself isn't being abused from within (and I am no judge whether it is or not, being new here) maybe it can continue as it has.
I mean... I do think non-WOC can and do contribute to this place as a safe space, but I don't think we can contribute more or even as usefully except in certain discussions, except as listeners as long as we're welcome.
Then again... and I'm getting onto a third hand here, there've also been problems with people watching and listening with no visible productivity or contribution or active and engaged (rather than consumptive) observation out of that.
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Honestly, from the little bit I've picked up in the past couple of days it sounds like this may really NEED to be a POC only zone. I was thrilled when karnythia posted in her journal that this Com was opening the doors temporarily, but just because it's a cool place doesn't mean I deserve to have a seat. If having non-POC takes away the feeling of safe-space for the people this community was created FOR (and it sounds like it's been abused enough that it justifiably DOES) then non-POC probably shouldn't be allowed to stay.
(edited to fix html)
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I'm also newly added and I also had a big questioning realization that maybe I should keep out of SNR. What's happened with the whole photo scenario understandably caused big ripples.
At the same time... feelings of security here and elsewhere probably ebb and flow with what is happening outside. So I feel like as long as SNR itself isn't being abused from within (and I am no judge whether it is or not, being new here) maybe it can continue as it has.
I mean... I do think non-WOC can and do contribute to this place as a safe space, but I don't think we can contribute more or even as usefully except in certain discussions, except as listeners as long as we're welcome.
Then again... and I'm getting onto a third hand here, there've also been problems with people watching and listening with no visible productivity or contribution or active and engaged (rather than consumptive) observation out of that.
Sorry if I'm full of shit.
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