Death and Foolishness in the Jungle

[setsuled]

Monday I dreamt I was with a class of college students, leading them through a dense tropical jungle on a bright, cloudless day. Persian buildings could be seen here and there, including white towers with golden domed tops rising above the trees. Eventually we came to a bright blue wall that I realised was in fact the sky. There was a large, blank

Comments

[grandmofhelsing]

Va. Tech is a proud "gun free zone." In other words, it is a large concentration of defenseless potential victims whom everyone knows to be defenseless. Olbermann's point, like most of his points, is beside the point. The shooter got off so many rounds that clip size was irrelevant. He reloaded many times. And there was, of course, no one to stop him while he was reloading. Not just students, mind you, but teachers. Not even someone with lots of training, a background check, and a carry permit. You can't stop lone nuts. Countries with draconian gun laws can't, and the U.S. can't, either. You can make sure that everyone else is a sitting duck. Meanwhile, the police will do what the always do: stand around with their thumbs up their asses and set up a "perimeter" while people are killed. Once again, as in Columbine, the police didn't fire a shot, and the rampage ended when the shooter decided to end it by taking his own life. And people are supposed to put their lives in the hands of the police?

[setsuled]

In other words, it is a large concentration of defenseless potential victims whom everyone knows to be defenseless.

Should I carry a gun?

Olbermann's point, like most of his points, is beside the point.

Just on Monday, or in general?

The shooter got off so many rounds that clip size was irrelevant. He reloaded many times.

If he reloaded many times, then smaller clip size would have meant he would have had to reload even more times. Time in which many factors might have come into play--the apparently inept police response might have gotten on its feet, or the killer might have reached the point of killing himself sooner, before he'd killed as many people. In any case, it doesn't seem logical to have such clips legal, even if one argues guns are necessary for self-defence.

Not even someone with lots of training, a background check, and a carry permit. You can't stop lone nuts. Countries with draconian gun laws can't, and the U.S. can't, either. You can make sure that everyone else is a sitting duck.You're missing my point here

[grandmofhelsing]

Should I carry a gun?

Only if you know how to use it and are actually capable of using it. Whether or not you should carry a gun is independent of whether you have a right to carry one.

Just on Monday, or in general?

In general. Even when I agree with him, I can't stand him.

If he reloaded many times, then smaller clip size would have meant he would have had to reload even more times. Time in which many factors might have come into play--the apparently inept police response might have gotten on its feet, or the killer might have reached the point of killing himself sooner, before he'd killed as many people. In any case, it doesn't seem logical to have such clips legal, even if one argues guns are necessary for self-defence.

This guy seemed to know what he was doing, so I doubt changing clips took him hardly any time at all. The same is true of anyone who knows enough about firearms to modify their clips in the first place.

You're missing my point here about idiot frat boys legally carrying guns. I think it's safe to assume

[setsuled]

Whether or not you should carry a gun is independent of whether you have a right to carry one.

Hmm. Do you think the majority of Americans ought to have a right to carry a gun even if they shouldn't carry a gun?

This guy seemed to know what he was doing, so I doubt changing clips took him hardly any time at all. The same is true of anyone who knows enough about firearms to modify their clips in the first place.

I don't quite understand why such modified clips would ever be produced if they were so entirely irrelevant as you seem to be claiming. But what if the guy wasn't the expert you think? Or say one of these clips found its way into the hands of someone else who's not such expert? What if the Virginia Tech. shooter had decided only to carry so many clips, and he was limited by that? You can't definitively rule that out. And there are no practical benefits from these things being legal.

I don't recall the last frat house shooting, probably because drunken frat boys are too drunk to use guns or hit anything when they do.It's

[stsisyphus]

Set, I'll admit that I straddle the fence when it comes to gun control. I see all the sides and what really leans me further unto "gun freedom" (I don't know what it is really called) is when Shrub's jackbooted thugs use a 13.0 lbs sledgehammer to knock down my door, kristalnacht-style, I am I not going down without a fight. But, enough macho posturing for me. I'll acknowledge that being in California is a lot different than being in Virginia when it comes to first-hand, even second-hand, experience of gun crime.

Anyway, here's some links with the ongoing debate, vis-a-vis Va Tech. I'll mention quickly that although Texas, where I live, has a concealed-carry law, the vast majority of the buildings in most urban areas have prohibition notices posted which let you know that it's illegal to carry them into the building. Not that would have stopped anyone intent on going on a spree killing, but whatever.

Debate on guns on campus from BoingBoing

Oh, look, some other idiot frat boy legally posing with gunsPlease note, I'm not

[setsuled]

I see all the sides and what really leans me further unto "gun freedom" (I don't know what it is really called) is when Shrub's jackbooted thugs use a 13.0 lbs sledgehammer to knock down my door, kristalnacht-style, I am I not going down without a fight.

If we were living in Nazi Germany, I'd agree with you, but Bush's approval ratings don't suggest he'd be able to unleash anything like that on the populace.

[stsisyphus]

I agree. Mostly. I am extremely uncomfortable about immigration politics in America these days and feel that there is more than a small corollary to be drawn. Still, it's a remote possibility, almost ludicrous to consider. I just don't want to be caught wrong. Call it "Heston's Wager".

Anyway, as far as practical life goes, I generally entertain that I demand the right to have a gun - but choose not to exercise it.

[grandmofhelsing]

Well, according to the MoveOn.org people, Bush might as well be a Nazi, but on planet Earth, he isn't. Still, it's never the guy in office now you have to worry about. It's the next guy because as soon as he's in it's too late.