2. Archie has pretty recently climbed the ranks of my favorites, and so many interviews with the creators kept harping on the idea that they want to be the kind of show that kills off characters to prove it's real or something (I feel reasonably certain now that they were bluffing without quite being dishonest.). I would like to say I should have known better (OUAT has not thus far been that kind of show; there have been exactly 3 deaths of characters who appeared in more than one episode), but I have been burned before. I'm just trying not to jinx it or something I guess. Shrug.
8. Well, it was just a thing I read on Tumblr and thought was funny, but he IS the only person with actual medical training in town...
13. Quiz: That happened once! He said he would do it but chickened out about following through! Based on his past behavior, I say that he would be all “well of course I will, Bae!” but then secretly keep a secret stash of magic and keep right on using it but hide it from him. Because Rumple doesn't know how to exist without his power. Of course, Bae is a bigger deal to him so he might actually try it, but I think he's much less capable of that kind of change (no magic) than something like 'never use magic to harm anyone' or something similar that would carefully direct his power towards more positive things.
14. I was not hating on Regina, I was merely listing her crimes. I love Regina and am sympathetic towards her, but sometimes one forgets that she has done plenty of things to make the characters not trust her, with good reason. I am not convinced that a person who has done the things she has done and continues to do them should be given custody of a child, although I agree it is iffy how the show likes to pretend she doesn't count at all (maybe it's just the characters who feel that way?). And she spent twenty-eight years feigning normalness and niceness while secretly grinding everyone's faces into the ground with her heels and laughing at them. The last baked good she offered anyone was poisoned. How do you expect people to react to her? Oh, and yeah “raped” was a little bit exaggerated, but what would you call it when she showed him how easily she could kill him, told him his life was in her hands, and then ordered her guards to take him to her bedchamber?
I'm not saying I'm against her. Based on the way Regina's been this season, I think Emma's early behavior in this episode was exactly right-cautious but friendly, peace offerings with boundaries. I'm just saying I don't like seeing the extreme reactions of fans-either 'OMG so evil I hate this redemption thing she needs to die' or 'OMG poor woobie Regina why is everyone so mean to her' when from my perspective it's kind of in the middle. Yes, she has done awful awful things and shown little regret for the actual things, these things rightfully alienate her from people and make it difficult for other characters to trust her, but she has shown a lot of humanity and her love for Henry has proven enough to inspire her to try to change, which should be cautiously encouraged.
...Also, I took a bunch of transcripts and put the flashbacks in chronological order, because that's the kind of person I am. :)
Forgot to say: I didn't mean that I had a problem with Emma, I meant that perhaps I thought she was the coolest of her family in the episode.
Also, just to clarify: I am mostly playing devil's advocate re Regina. No amount of crimes should stand in the way of a quality redemption story IMO. It's all just thoughts I had after reading the opinionated Internet that seemed like interesting discussion stuff. OUaT has been doing a pretty good job of glossing over potential grittiness while not completely ignoring it either, and I wouldn't want them to go there in what is for me a relatively fluffy show. I just like to discuss. I totally understand if you don't like that topic and don't want to discuss it. :)
2. Well, I think that is a fair concern to have. It's true that in terms of important characters, Archie is pretty low in the ranks. (I think possibly I love him because he is the "normal guy" amongst all the heroes and fairies and magic weirdos, the guy who is capable of helping people using his brain. Also because he had adorable reddish curls.) However, I personally feel that the "normal" TV rules do not apply to OUAT on account of it is an ABC/Disney familyish show. It doesn't get very adult; even when it tries to, it's pretty glazed over. Graham was obviously conceived to be killed after a certain point, but that doesn't mean the other characters are up for death. But then I think of poor, beautiful, stunted Heroes, which had a lovely array of minor characters that were either sacrificed on the Altar of Sylar or mysteriously vanished due to not being as attractive/popular as Peter, Nathan, Claire, possibly Noah, and, as always, SYLAR.
To sum up: I don't think they will kill off Archie because it is more of an impact story-wise to make it sudden rather than to build up to it, but there is always the chance. PLEASE DON'T DIE, ARCHIE.
8. Eh, I guess. I'm just saying they seemed less focused on the supposed dead body and more focused on REVENGE.
13. POINT. He is INCAPABLE of letting go. I think probably/possibly he is terrified of reverting to his former pre-magic weak self and is also disgusted for having been that person.
...I read "he doesn't know how to exist without his power" and I tried to imagine him as the one person I imagine being completely defined by their power, which is Clark Kent, and it broke my brain a little bit.
14. I didn't think you were hating on Regina! I was talking about the Internet hate! Admittedly, I had trouble liking her at first because she seemed like a one-note wonder of stone-cold bitchery, but now that she's struggling and generally put in a completely 180 place from her season one position (ditto Emma!), I LOVE HER. People who win are boring. People who fail and struggle are interesting! I agree with your points about her crimes and such, but really, I just want to root for her. I also kind of love that she is an awesome homemaker in addition to an evil queen.
The rape thing: Oh right! I was thinking of in Storybrooke when he was doing the walk of shame out of her house and stuff like that, all like, "...I don't want to be here AND YET I'M NOT LEAVING." That is a good example of glossing over the grittiness, and maybe for me that makes it easier to forgive Regina of all her crimes. In most of the flashbacks, she doesn't seem to do much more than orchestrate a few things and just cruise around wearing huge glittery black gowns and fabulous coats.
I also dislike the extremes regarding Regina, although I admit I'm a little more in the "everyone forgive Regina NOW!" camp.
Flashbacks: hooray!
Re: Emma: Just FYI, Mary Margaret is the coolest of her family in EVERY EPISODE. Emma cannot rank any higher than second place. (Or maybe you are referring to coolness of attitude toward Regina. In which case I suppose you are right.) I like Emma a lot better this season but I'm still waiting for her perfect parenting bubble to burst. I so hoped it would happen in this episode but it didn't! :(
There's a part of me that tentatively thinks maybe they're not even allowed to kill off the popular Disney characters, since they had to ask permission to use them anyway... but I may have just made that up. I don't want this to be the kind of show where I worry whether my favorites will survive. (Graham doesn't count; I had no strong feelings about him until his episode and he promptly died. That's not the same as developing a favorite over time and then having them killed off.) I agree that part of Archie's appeal is that he's a different kind of character than all the other guys (although I am fairly sure that I came around to love him via feeling sorry for him, which, okay.) and I feel they really need to keep some of that variation and different perspectives around, rather than packing the cast with leather-pantsed guylinered pretty boys who are rougish and flirt with Emma. :P
I don't personally feel that it would make any sense to kill Archie off at this point, and this is probably not the kind of show that would go for that, but I am trying not to expect things.
13. Slight change of subject, but a little while ago I had the theory that Rumple believes it's the man, not the Dark One, that everyone leaves. Granted, there is no actual dichotomy in Rumple's character, I just mean that Milah left him and called him a coward, Baelfire was separated from him, screaming about how he was a coward, and Belle called him a coward when she was told to leave. I'm not convinced he realizes that he can in theory rise above personality flaws without using magic/power. I don't think he really understands that it was his power that drove Bae and Belle away. (I mean, he might. He's a perceptive guy. But even if he knows it intellectually, he has clearly not accepted it or he wouldn't be trying to hold onto/use magic to find Bae in our world.)
14. I'm rooting for Regina, too, but I want her to put forth the effort and understand that people might still hate her anyway. You know, like Baltar in s4, who'd managed to go from the s1 "no Baltar what what are you doing stop being a slimeball Baltar" to "...since when was Baltar the moral compass and the voice of reason of the show? And he cares about people BESIDES himself? When did that happen?" Of course, I'd still enjoy her having her characteristic bouts of bitchy snark, but I don't think she has reached the point where she should be forgiven yet. She needs compassion and understanding and boundaries, yes, but I do not think she should be forgiven until she realizes that she was wrong.
And yeah, Regina/Graham in Storybrooke is a grey area. I don't consider it rape because he believed they were in a relationship of some sort, even if he sort of knew it was hollow and messed-up, and if I counted that I'd have to start counting all the other fake relationships and hook-ups that happened under the curse, and that thought wearies me. So that doesn't count. But in FTL TOTALLY.
Flashbacks: Let me tell you, it is REALLY FREAKING HARD to sort out all the stuff that happened between Snow and Charming's official wedding and when the curse hit. There are lots of gaps, and WAY TOO MUCH STUFF packed in right before the curse. I cannot wait for stuff to fill in the holes, and I sincerely hope that the writers are keeping at least a little track of when stuff happened.
I'm just saying, Emma stood out to me slightly more than the rest of her family in this episode, although I can't strictly remember why.
Your thoughts on Archie and character deaths are interesting and again remind me of Heroes. I maybe wasn't super clear when I mentioned it before; one of the strong points of the minor characters on Heroes was that there was a wide variety of characters with a wide variety of powers--male, female, COCs, powerful, moderately powerful, not very powerful at all, nervous, controlled, middle class, lower class, what-have-you. Even just regarding the ones with powers, we had Eden, Monica, Maya and her brother, that guy who exploded glasses--I mean, even just think of the major-minor characters that got shoved aside from season to season, like Elle, even poor Mohinder and Tracey/Jessica/Nikki. Why did they get shoved aside? Because (from my POV) they were not as important/pretty/interesting enough as the main four or five characters the show dwelt on. They lent balance to the show and they were either amped up or killed or vanished, or sometimes all three!
That is my tentative concern with OUAT--that as time goes on they will be less interested in maintaining or even developing their minor characters (a la Jonathan or Warren on BTVS, or even Spike, given that he started out as a minor character, or Gaeta or Chief or Kat from BSG--you get my drift), and will let them disappear into vagueness rather than keep them on to balance the occasionally larger-than-life dramatic main characters.
I am less concerned about characters being killed off because it is still a pretty family-friendly show, all things considered. It's interesting to think that they might not be allowed to kill off the Disney characters, but I don't think that would even come into it. I think they would have to account for the death, make it worthwhile. This is not a Whedon show, where a character--any character--could be killed to show how serious the plot is. The death has to have real meaning. It's far more likely, to me, that an uninteresting character will just vanish and never be heard from again. Like Uter!
13. Again, interesting. You make me wonder if Rumple has some kind of block going on in his head where he's recognizing that people keep leaving him because he is a coward and he's saying to himself somewhere deep down, "You just haven't proved yet how brave you are, they haven't seen it yet, I still need to prove it to them." I could totally see him thinking that people are leaving him because they see him as the weak man instead of the powerful Dark One. Reading that costume stuff makes me realize he really wants everyone to notice how powerful he is while he is still allowed to live his everyday life. You're right, I don't think he even comprehends the possibility that his power has made him a more repulsive person. Or, rather, I think he understands that he's made himself into a monster for some people (I mean, he straight-out admitted it to Belle, didn't he?) but at the same time he's trying to prove to the people he loves that he's the same, just with the power to care for them and he doesn't understand why that's not flying with them. Or something.
(...and that is not even taking into consideration his weird speech patterns, how he affects that voice/laugh to make himself stranger, especially when faced with awkward questions or situations...what's that all about?)
14. You know, I guess I don't know how to feel about Regina. I guess I am irritated that no one in the town is even attempting to be nice to her despite the fact that she is trying really hard. I don't like it when people are antagonized from every angle and that's what I'm seeing with Regina, so I just want her to win, even a little! I don't even want her to try, I just want someone to accept her, and now that Emma and Henry have turned against her, I fear the worst. Sidebar: do you really think she doesn't realize she was wrong? Do you think she's faking it to sort of half-ass her redemption?
Also: I never believed Baltar was redeemed. Admittedly, I only saw season four once, and it was a long, long time ago, but everything he did was self-driven, and sometimes that path took him on a path of strange divine propheticness, and sometimes his empathy came out, but for the most part, he was looking out for himself. That was why I always loved him, because I love selfish characters more than anything. (Possibly why I love Regina so much right now, now that she's showing a wider range of emotions.) Even when he had that religious cult going on, I still didn't believe he was fully into it for any reason aside from himself. But I digress.
Uh...what other fake relationships and hook-ups that happened under the curse? Obviously Mary Margaret/Whale, but...? I don't really count stuff like David/Kathryn that practically happened in FTW anyway, I mean stuff that was or would have been way out there like Red/Genie or...something. And yeah, okay, the Regina/Graham thing in FTW counts. That's shady, I'd forgotten about it.
Flashbacks: I believe it! They tried to cram in A LOT of stuff in that little time period before the curse and it was ridiculous.
Maybe Emma stood out to you because she was the only one who was A) an impartial observer in terms of Regina (makes me wish August was around, I wonder how he would feel?), and B) empathic and reasonable towards Regina? Despite their past clashes, Emma (and Henry) was the only one willing to be friendly to Regina. All the people from FTW were not even willing to have her in their presence because they had fought against her and had seen the bad things she'd done. I suppose Snow has a reason to act the way she did, because she tried offering Regina a way out and Regina tried to kill her instead, but they are kind of being jerks and Emma is the voice of reason here. For once.
Actually, the reason Eden, Elle, Mohinder, and Tracey/Niki/Jessica were written out was, in each case, actor availability. I distinctly recall that v5 of Heroes was supposed to have a lot more Mohinder and Tracey, but the writers basically bent over backwards to accommodate the actor's prior commitments and the story may have suffered somewhat for it. That's also the reason many of the minor characters on OUaT have vanished-Ella, Sydney, Jefferson, possibly Kathryn, possibly August. Without being regulars, the odds are high that an actor will take on another job, since they're only getting paid per appearance anyway. It's not like they can be constantly available. That, I suppose, is the real danger of an ensemble show-the show can't afford to have twenty regulars, so they run the risk of not being able to use the actors they choose not to hire in that capacity. I can't believe I forgot about the more relevant behind-the-scenes stuff.
I think we may have exhausted the topic of Rumple for the moment, but totally agree. Must be investigated further.
I don't think Regina is faking it. I think she understands she lost and she understands why they would all hate her, but she only genuinely regrets that it all fell apart and that she's losing Henry because of it. The second part is what may lead to true redemption eventually, if she comes to understand exactly why it has cost her Henry. I might be wrong on all this, you understand, that's just what I see at the moment.
Baltar: I will be quick because this isn't about him, but it's mostly a change in his behavior and a weird sincerity I saw in him after the whole mutiny thing. It's been a while since I watched that though; maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
I do count David/Kathryn as a fake relationship. They never got married or had sex in FTL, nor did they really want to, but the curse made them believe they were married and they had sex at some point (not sure when exactly, but there was a time that Kathryn thought she might be pregnant, so). I don't know if that's the only other fake relationship deliberately set up, and we don't know how many random hook-ups happened (...Whale seemed to have slept with Kathryn, maybe...), but really I have no idea what to think about it all or how violated the characters feel, so I just kinda go “they were cursed” and ignore it, or try to.
Those are all my thoughts right now, new episode yay!
8. Well, it was just a thing I read on Tumblr and thought was funny, but he IS the only person with actual medical training in town...
13. Quiz: That happened once! He said he would do it but chickened out about following through! Based on his past behavior, I say that he would be all “well of course I will, Bae!” but then secretly keep a secret stash of magic and keep right on using it but hide it from him. Because Rumple doesn't know how to exist without his power. Of course, Bae is a bigger deal to him so he might actually try it, but I think he's much less capable of that kind of change (no magic) than something like 'never use magic to harm anyone' or something similar that would carefully direct his power towards more positive things.
14. I was not hating on Regina, I was merely listing her crimes. I love Regina and am sympathetic towards her, but sometimes one forgets that she has done plenty of things to make the characters not trust her, with good reason. I am not convinced that a person who has done the things she has done and continues to do them should be given custody of a child, although I agree it is iffy how the show likes to pretend she doesn't count at all (maybe it's just the characters who feel that way?). And she spent twenty-eight years feigning normalness and niceness while secretly grinding everyone's faces into the ground with her heels and laughing at them. The last baked good she offered anyone was poisoned. How do you expect people to react to her? Oh, and yeah “raped” was a little bit exaggerated, but what would you call it when she showed him how easily she could kill him, told him his life was in her hands, and then ordered her guards to take him to her bedchamber?
I'm not saying I'm against her. Based on the way Regina's been this season, I think Emma's early behavior in this episode was exactly right-cautious but friendly, peace offerings with boundaries. I'm just saying I don't like seeing the extreme reactions of fans-either 'OMG so evil I hate this redemption thing she needs to die' or 'OMG poor woobie Regina why is everyone so mean to her' when from my perspective it's kind of in the middle. Yes, she has done awful awful things and shown little regret for the actual things, these things rightfully alienate her from people and make it difficult for other characters to trust her, but she has shown a lot of humanity and her love for Henry has proven enough to inspire her to try to change, which should be cautiously encouraged.
...Also, I took a bunch of transcripts and put the flashbacks in chronological order, because that's the kind of person I am. :)
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Also, just to clarify: I am mostly playing devil's advocate re Regina. No amount of crimes should stand in the way of a quality redemption story IMO. It's all just thoughts I had after reading the opinionated Internet that seemed like interesting discussion stuff. OUaT has been doing a pretty good job of glossing over potential grittiness while not completely ignoring it either, and I wouldn't want them to go there in what is for me a relatively fluffy show. I just like to discuss. I totally understand if you don't like that topic and don't want to discuss it. :)
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To sum up: I don't think they will kill off Archie because it is more of an impact story-wise to make it sudden rather than to build up to it, but there is always the chance. PLEASE DON'T DIE, ARCHIE.
8. Eh, I guess. I'm just saying they seemed less focused on the supposed dead body and more focused on REVENGE.
13. POINT. He is INCAPABLE of letting go. I think probably/possibly he is terrified of reverting to his former pre-magic weak self and is also disgusted for having been that person.
...I read "he doesn't know how to exist without his power" and I tried to imagine him as the one person I imagine being completely defined by their power, which is Clark Kent, and it broke my brain a little bit.
14. I didn't think you were hating on Regina! I was talking about the Internet hate! Admittedly, I had trouble liking her at first because she seemed like a one-note wonder of stone-cold bitchery, but now that she's struggling and generally put in a completely 180 place from her season one position (ditto Emma!), I LOVE HER. People who win are boring. People who fail and struggle are interesting! I agree with your points about her crimes and such, but really, I just want to root for her. I also kind of love that she is an awesome homemaker in addition to an evil queen.
The rape thing: Oh right! I was thinking of in Storybrooke when he was doing the walk of shame out of her house and stuff like that, all like, "...I don't want to be here AND YET I'M NOT LEAVING." That is a good example of glossing over the grittiness, and maybe for me that makes it easier to forgive Regina of all her crimes. In most of the flashbacks, she doesn't seem to do much more than orchestrate a few things and just cruise around wearing huge glittery black gowns and fabulous coats.
I also dislike the extremes regarding Regina, although I admit I'm a little more in the "everyone forgive Regina NOW!" camp.
Flashbacks: hooray!
Re: Emma: Just FYI, Mary Margaret is the coolest of her family in EVERY EPISODE. Emma cannot rank any higher than second place. (Or maybe you are referring to coolness of attitude toward Regina. In which case I suppose you are right.) I like Emma a lot better this season but I'm still waiting for her perfect parenting bubble to burst. I so hoped it would happen in this episode but it didn't! :(
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I don't personally feel that it would make any sense to kill Archie off at this point, and this is probably not the kind of show that would go for that, but I am trying not to expect things.
13. Slight change of subject, but a little while ago I had the theory that Rumple believes it's the man, not the Dark One, that everyone leaves. Granted, there is no actual dichotomy in Rumple's character, I just mean that Milah left him and called him a coward, Baelfire was separated from him, screaming about how he was a coward, and Belle called him a coward when she was told to leave. I'm not convinced he realizes that he can in theory rise above personality flaws without using magic/power. I don't think he really understands that it was his power that drove Bae and Belle away. (I mean, he might. He's a perceptive guy. But even if he knows it intellectually, he has clearly not accepted it or he wouldn't be trying to hold onto/use magic to find Bae in our world.)
14. I'm rooting for Regina, too, but I want her to put forth the effort and understand that people might still hate her anyway. You know, like Baltar in s4, who'd managed to go from the s1 "no Baltar what what are you doing stop being a slimeball Baltar" to "...since when was Baltar the moral compass and the voice of reason of the show? And he cares about people BESIDES himself? When did that happen?" Of course, I'd still enjoy her having her characteristic bouts of bitchy snark, but I don't think she has reached the point where she should be forgiven yet. She needs compassion and understanding and boundaries, yes, but I do not think she should be forgiven until she realizes that she was wrong.
And yeah, Regina/Graham in Storybrooke is a grey area. I don't consider it rape because he believed they were in a relationship of some sort, even if he sort of knew it was hollow and messed-up, and if I counted that I'd have to start counting all the other fake relationships and hook-ups that happened under the curse, and that thought wearies me. So that doesn't count. But in FTL TOTALLY.
Flashbacks: Let me tell you, it is REALLY FREAKING HARD to sort out all the stuff that happened between Snow and Charming's official wedding and when the curse hit. There are lots of gaps, and WAY TOO MUCH STUFF packed in right before the curse. I cannot wait for stuff to fill in the holes, and I sincerely hope that the writers are keeping at least a little track of when stuff happened.
I'm just saying, Emma stood out to me slightly more than the rest of her family in this episode, although I can't strictly remember why.
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That is my tentative concern with OUAT--that as time goes on they will be less interested in maintaining or even developing their minor characters (a la Jonathan or Warren on BTVS, or even Spike, given that he started out as a minor character, or Gaeta or Chief or Kat from BSG--you get my drift), and will let them disappear into vagueness rather than keep them on to balance the occasionally larger-than-life dramatic main characters.
I am less concerned about characters being killed off because it is still a pretty family-friendly show, all things considered. It's interesting to think that they might not be allowed to kill off the Disney characters, but I don't think that would even come into it. I think they would have to account for the death, make it worthwhile. This is not a Whedon show, where a character--any character--could be killed to show how serious the plot is. The death has to have real meaning. It's far more likely, to me, that an uninteresting character will just vanish and never be heard from again. Like Uter!
13. Again, interesting. You make me wonder if Rumple has some kind of block going on in his head where he's recognizing that people keep leaving him because he is a coward and he's saying to himself somewhere deep down, "You just haven't proved yet how brave you are, they haven't seen it yet, I still need to prove it to them." I could totally see him thinking that people are leaving him because they see him as the weak man instead of the powerful Dark One. Reading that costume stuff makes me realize he really wants everyone to notice how powerful he is while he is still allowed to live his everyday life. You're right, I don't think he even comprehends the possibility that his power has made him a more repulsive person. Or, rather, I think he understands that he's made himself into a monster for some people (I mean, he straight-out admitted it to Belle, didn't he?) but at the same time he's trying to prove to the people he loves that he's the same, just with the power to care for them and he doesn't understand why that's not flying with them. Or something.
(...and that is not even taking into consideration his weird speech patterns, how he affects that voice/laugh to make himself stranger, especially when faced with awkward questions or situations...what's that all about?)
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Also: I never believed Baltar was redeemed. Admittedly, I only saw season four once, and it was a long, long time ago, but everything he did was self-driven, and sometimes that path took him on a path of strange divine propheticness, and sometimes his empathy came out, but for the most part, he was looking out for himself. That was why I always loved him, because I love selfish characters more than anything. (Possibly why I love Regina so much right now, now that she's showing a wider range of emotions.) Even when he had that religious cult going on, I still didn't believe he was fully into it for any reason aside from himself. But I digress.
Uh...what other fake relationships and hook-ups that happened under the curse? Obviously Mary Margaret/Whale, but...? I don't really count stuff like David/Kathryn that practically happened in FTW anyway, I mean stuff that was or would have been way out there like Red/Genie or...something. And yeah, okay, the Regina/Graham thing in FTW counts. That's shady, I'd forgotten about it.
Flashbacks: I believe it! They tried to cram in A LOT of stuff in that little time period before the curse and it was ridiculous.
Maybe Emma stood out to you because she was the only one who was A) an impartial observer in terms of Regina (makes me wish August was around, I wonder how he would feel?), and B) empathic and reasonable towards Regina? Despite their past clashes, Emma (and Henry) was the only one willing to be friendly to Regina. All the people from FTW were not even willing to have her in their presence because they had fought against her and had seen the bad things she'd done. I suppose Snow has a reason to act the way she did, because she tried offering Regina a way out and Regina tried to kill her instead, but they are kind of being jerks and Emma is the voice of reason here. For once.
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I think we may have exhausted the topic of Rumple for the moment, but totally agree. Must be investigated further.
I don't think Regina is faking it. I think she understands she lost and she understands why they would all hate her, but she only genuinely regrets that it all fell apart and that she's losing Henry because of it. The second part is what may lead to true redemption eventually, if she comes to understand exactly why it has cost her Henry. I might be wrong on all this, you understand, that's just what I see at the moment.
Baltar: I will be quick because this isn't about him, but it's mostly a change in his behavior and a weird sincerity I saw in him after the whole mutiny thing. It's been a while since I watched that though; maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
I do count David/Kathryn as a fake relationship. They never got married or had sex in FTL, nor did they really want to, but the curse made them believe they were married and they had sex at some point (not sure when exactly, but there was a time that Kathryn thought she might be pregnant, so). I don't know if that's the only other fake relationship deliberately set up, and we don't know how many random hook-ups happened (...Whale seemed to have slept with Kathryn, maybe...), but really I have no idea what to think about it all or how violated the characters feel, so I just kinda go “they were cursed” and ignore it, or try to.
Those are all my thoughts right now, new episode yay!
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