because it is very early and I'm very awake

[seperis]

The horrible danger of insomnia combined with friendsfriends--God. It's *crack*. I am totally understanding the draw. Currently working on avoiding ep reviews nad spoilers, since I haen't watched The Return yet

Comments

[amireal]

So very tired, so really short for now:

I think it's a case of people seeing what's loudest. JF has the pretty and DH has the flaily arms and wobbily voice.

What do I mean? I mean that JF is really pretty (and you'll find far more people thinking he's universally hot than say, DH). He's visually stunning without having to do much more than lean against a wall in jeans and a black t-shirt.

The first thing you notice about DH in a show is that he's loud and there. He moves a lot and speaks a lot, all skills having more to do with acting than looking pretty.

And somehow that translates to one person acting (the person with all the speaking and the moving) and one person NOT (just standing there looking pretty). Which I do NOT agree with. I HAVE Taken acting classes and done a LOT of theater and watched a LOT of actors being directed. JF came from a much more structured background yes and I can see that in his acting, but he's not doing any less than DH. I think some people pick up on his contempt for some things that are vaguely related to the show and acting. He is frustrated with the genre sometimes (and in perfectly reasonable ways) but other times he's a 12 year old boy who gets to blow shit up.

But down to it, he's not the big excited puppy as MUCH as DH is and people can pick up on that. As for putting them together on screen, I've often said that DH's pressence is LARGER than JFs in that often he can steal the screen with his antics which can add to the idea that JF isn't as much of an actor. Personally I've seen him learn and grow and pick up things obviously from those around him. That? Is the sign of a tremendous skill and proffessionalism.

There isn't a finite amount of 'acting skill' and you dont' have to mete it out like once you decide someone is the most versatile the next person isn't nearly as stellar. It doesn't occur/proccess through to people that it's not like sucking up all the air in the room. But rather like someone snoring and the other person has sleep apnea. But disturb sleep, but one does it more quietly than the other.

Tangent for others to go on without me with: JF makes against the grain choices for the typical action hero. It throws people off entirely. Discuss.

[serabut]

JF makes against the grain choices for the typical action hero. It throws people off entirely. Discuss.

For me, that's it; that's it exactly. I kid around with the perceived fandom opinion that JF can't act, but that said, I'm aware that often is noted in comparison to DH, which as you said, 'louder', and so, not a very fair comparison.

The disconnect between his role type and how he's actually playing it is what makes the character Sheppard interesting to me. Someone (was it cesperanza?) described JF as a comedic actor trapped in a leading man body, and that's a description that both makes me giggle and something I agree with.

[wickedwords]

Someone described JF as a comedic actor trapped in a leading man body

Uhm, that would have been me. *g* It was in Ces's LJ, during one of the discussions of JF's acting. Actually, I am loving that they are giving him more to do stuff with during the 2nd half of this part of the season, with Common Ground and Phantoms.

[serabut]

Uhm, that would have been me. *g*

Well, hello you! :) At least I got the general vicinity of the comment correct. :)

Totally with you re: JF's acting opportunities.

[lillian13]

Tangent for others to go on without me with: JF makes against the grain choices for the typical action hero. It throws people off entirely. Discuss.

Whether deliberately or not, casting JF in the Action!Hero! part was inspired, and fits well with the show. He wasn't meant to be Action!John, he was a light switch. A backup that only Weir and the science team wanted on board.

Let's face it, Robert Patrick's character was the perfect sqare-jawed SG-1 hero--and then they whacked him and put the auxiliary guy in his place. JF has done a very good job of showing us that--John Sheppard should never have had the command, but he does his damnedest, even though he barely knew about all this before he went through the Stargate.

As to the Saint Rodney Stories, they remind me of the Saint Xander stories in Buffy fandom. I love Rodney and Xander, but stories like that (along with the ones where everyone's personalities have been replaced by those of 13-year-old girls) cause me to hit the back button before I'm tempted to blast the writers with verbal shotguns. (And I love Xander and Rodney because of their idiosyncrasies and flaws. I have no desire to see them Marty-Sued.)

(And does anyone besides me wish Everett had been on the series longer than a couple of episodes? He made a great foil for John--and honestly, besides disliking John/Rodney, he was a great base commander, who respected Teyla, Weir, etc. Would have made for some very interesting storylines...)

[with_apostrophe]

I don't think I have ever seen a 'Saint Rodney' story. Can someone maybe point me to one so I know what I'm (thankfully) missing?

Yes ok, he had a crappy childhood (if we can believe him) but it does not give him a green card to do whatever he freaking likes! And I think Rodney would agree that without Sheppard to keep him in line he'd be in a very different place than he is now. IN a similar way - if DH didn't have the wonderful chemistry with JF that he does, where would the character of Rodney be now?

Do you like the way I neatly segued that?

[seperis]

What do I mean? I mean that JF is really pretty (and you'll find far more people thinking he's universally hot than say, DH). He's visually stunning without having to do much more than lean against a wall in jeans and a black t-shirt.

Which in the nutshell is what pisses me off about fandom--the built in limitations of the viewers who recast the entire character as the equivalent of a blowup doll. And we have argued this before. On this point, I can't bend, and I don't think I'm that biased. It's frustrating, and add that in with my squicks in general and this being my favorite character in specific--I'm not going to take it well.

[amireal]

See, I see it as two different things though. On one hand people are limiting the ACTOR based on his looks (as Hollywood itself has done) and then people limiting the CHARACTER based on his looks and the actors choices which they may or may not understand.

What I'm really trying to do is avoid saying that the average IQ is 100 in a public post. *looks uncomfortable* And no I am not meaning to insult anyone specifically but it's part of one of my larger complaints about subtly vs broad strokes and what people do and do not get.

[seperis]

No, I get that. But if no one ever even tries, it becomes basically a single vision fandom, which only draws more limited vision people, or people who fall into it because there's no other option available and let's face, it, most people won't *create* other options in interpretation. It takes a fairly strong person to set aside what is, and you have to admit this, an overwhelming amount of meta and fanon and not only go against it, but go against it publicly and openly.

[amireal]

See. I uh don't see. The overwhelmingness. Maybe I don't read enough meta? (probably on purpose). I like them both. I LOVE them both I think we can agree. (Though we are very skewed in chat because you force me into the other corner a lot) and I think-- I don't care.

What I mean is I read a meta or a fic or something that's so wildly off to me that I just sort of... black it out and move on. And when I write fic I think far more about the canon than the fanon and am really aware (hopefully) when I let some of that slip in. I get bitter about no longer being able to use pudding (jellos fits in here too, but does not paint onto the skin quite as well *koff*). I had a really RATIONAL reason backed up by statistics and logic but now everyone is all "YOU'RE SO UNORIGINAL AND A BIG FANON WHORE!!"

Back to my point. Does me not caring and doing my own thing make me... less valid? I mean I know you love him, you just have to read your fic to see that but there's a point that you go to that I just.. don't have the energy for maybe? I don't do lots of meta fannish posts about SGA and there are few people who I'll actually engage in comments because mostly people seem so off their rocker (no matter what side they're on, if I agree or not) that it's just not worth stepping in. And the reasoning that 'the other side is just as bad!' just sort of feels... hypocritical.

[trobadora]

viewers who recast the entire character as the equivalent of a blowup doll

YES! I think I'm going to call that phenomenon "blow-up!Shep" from now on. *g*

[hoktauri]

Heh, of course, that could also mean Shep gets into a lot of trouble b/c he blows up everything! Which would also be fine. *g*