*keywords*
Anyone wondering why Wolfram's been so quiet recently? Well. Kira got me talking last night which got Wolfram talking and though drywall Wolfram is dry, he's really not being that at all. ._. I know it's a little tl;dr, but PLEASE read this, Katie. D: Once this issue is resolved the drama will be over, I swear.
Somehow this all started with a discussion about the differences between Wolfram in the novels and Wolfram in the anime. O_o; (And it is too an essay. Close enough - I IMed paragraphs. >()
Nil: >> The key difference between my Wolfram and the other two?
Kira: ?
Nil: He realized that people take you more seriously when you don't try so hard. Even Conrad, for example. Instead of bitching at him like he used to he goes ">> yeah you can think that but you'll realize later that I was right."
Kira: *nod* You know, I have to agree that Wolfram's gotten way better at dealing with people since he arrived. ...All that emotional trauma made him a better person!
Nil: ._. His emotions have shifted to other categories.
Kira: Oh?
Nil: He killed the part that cares about rejection and what people think of him and moved it all into the "caring FOR (at any cost)" category. ><; Which makes sense, no matter which person he interacts with that we're talking about.
Kira: *cough* Selfless.
Nil: In action, but not in purpose.
Kira: So you claim, but..!
Nil: He ignores how people react to him because he doesn't want to have to deal with it.
Kira: ...which shows more maturity in itself, really. I don't think he was deliberately paying attention to how people reacted, say, two years ago. He's just gotten to the point of realizing it doesn't matter. ^^
Nil: >> Maybe.
Kira: ... *supraiz wolfram glomp 'cause he continues to be cute*
Nil: ...wtf O_o?
Kira: Well, he is. ♥
Nil: He's depressing. That's what he is. Island version, anyway. AU version is happy Wolfram. Island.... Ugh. There is so much crap there that I don't want to touch.
Kira: ...Well. We'll get Yuuri's head on straight eventually? -_-;; Is there anything new? Or just what I've heard already?
Nil: For the two of them? Mm, nothing other than the paperwork thread. Actually. Wolfram's kind of funny about it. He's only reacting the way he is because his senses are deadened. --Which is a Very Good Thing.
Kira: ...It beats sitting there and crying, I'll admit.
Nil: No. I mean. When Yuuri does things right. You remember what I said about over reaction?
Kira: Yep.
Nil: Well. Considering what's happened in the past... If Wolfram acted on his mental impulses before they go through that filter of mellowing everything out? Yuuri would find himself brutally pushed away, very directly, SO incredibly fast.
Kira: ...Huh. Because Wolfram is trying to avoid getting close again? Or what?
Nil: Not just Yuuri. I imagine when they actually get somewhere substantial Wolfram is going to have a breakdown, really. He wants nothing to do with any of it. --Which makes me now understand his reactions to that private thread with Katy's Wolfram so much better.
Kira: ...*now really curious* By "any of it" you mean everything going on at home? Or just the entire situation?
Nil: No. I mean. He wants nothing to do with being romantically involved with anyone or devoted to anyone. Ever. As far as he is right now, anyway. >>
Kira: ...wow :< Okay, that's a pretty severe overreaction right there, I admit. >>;
Nil: It's been going that way for quite a while, really. Just been getting more severe the more he has to deal with it.
Kira: given the sort of crap he's been through the last few months romantically, I can... really understand why. -_-
Nil: That's why he's put up with Souji kissing him by accident without freaking. It... doesn't mean anything to him anymore. ._.
Kira: ...burned out on the whole concept, huh.
Nil: I think burned out is a massive understatement. Repulsion is a better word. (To the situation, obviously. Not Souji.) I mean, the honestea is a good example. He was being completely honest and yet ignored all connotations of romantic feelings he might have been feeling. It's running that deep. :< Thus the impending emotional breakdown that is probably going to scare the hell out of Yuuri.
Kira: ...Yuuri could use a bit of being scared, really >>; He didn't do it deliberately, but he does have a habit of not noticing things until his face is rubbed in them. Though, to be quite fair? Souji hasn't noticed that himself.
Nil: >> Ahaha, well. That avoidance of romantic involvement takes a chunk out of how honestly his feelings come through to Souji, as well. Sorry. Everyone is in that filter. D:
Kira: Heh. It's okay.
Nil: It's in the little festering locked box with the Conrad topic. Though this one is MUCH more dangerous.
Kira: And definitely more, er, topical.
Nil: The Conrad topic also has the weight of other peoples' perceptions in it. Which makes it difficult for him to resolve it, because he can't decide which part is more important, and since he's ashamed, he doesn't want to talk about it. This other topic has nothing to do with other people OR his sense of pride. It's just there because it's messing him up that badly >> Not to, yknow, make wolfram sound like a endless pit of Festering Angst and therefore More Emo and Importantly Depressed than U.
Kira: *cough* No, but he is apparently a pit of festering angst at the moment >>; It's probably for the best that Souji hasn't picked up on that, actually. I... think he might decide not to do anything about it.
Nil: That's perfectly awesome. >>
Kira: not because he doesn't care! but because he doesn't know WHAT to do.
Nil: Wolfram would blink at him and ask if he was crazy for thinking something was wrong. See, Wolfram... Well. He doesn't always directly let things out. But he at least has ways of letting things slip. If he likes you it may not seem like it, but he lets it out via fussing. He doesn't just bottle things up, especially strong emotions. ...This is why I'm going "something is going to give and it's going to give hard". And the WORST thing about it? If he snaps with Yuuri and it freaks Yuuri out, I'm hoping that Yuuri will realize that it's just something Wolfram needs to get over and will be fine. Yuuri backing off would be the worst thing to do and would only make it much much worse. ^^;
Kira: ...Yeah, that's very true. >>;
Nil: (But to be honest, even though Yuuri can be an idiot sometimes, backing off would be actually the most reasonable reaction.)
Kira: If your fiance flips out and has a breakdown at you about how he doesn't want to be romantically involved with anyone ever no no hell no. ...then yeah, I can see how backing off would help >>
Nil: ...in addition to being so adamantly FOR it, before, yes. "....Why is he so mad at me...?" v_v; And really, if THAT happened, i think souji would also be massively confused. ...But really, the beginning of the honestea thread? i think Wolfram was 'saying' something different than I thought at the time.
Kira: ? I think I need to go back and re-read that, then
Nil: Read it and tell me what you think.
Kira: *nod*
Nil: ...Yeah. Up to all the "....."s and the "warning warning mister smith". (Actually, rereading it makes me more convinced that he meant something other than what it seemed.)
Kira: ...Hmm. I can't see it, myself. What does it look like to you?
Nil: Three words. >> "Souji, I'm scared."
Kira: Oooh. ...You know, I can see that interpretation, too.
Nil: Considering he's sounding kind of hopeful that the island's just being weird...
Kira: *nod* And is babbling. A lot. >>
Nil: And hell. The biggest hint is "Did he do something right for once?" ">> ... I think so." ...and he's not smiling at all.
Kira: ... *nod* That's what I spotted, actually, as the questionable note ^^;
Nil: using emo icons, actually O_o HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THIS WHEN IT WAS HAPPENING?
Kira: But -- he looked sort of interpretable-as-shy, and Souji had just reacted VERY oddly to his being wigged and excited
Nil: The fact that Wolfram didn't call him on sounding cynical, though?
Kira: He sort of did in asterisks... but yeah, I see what you mean. It's a sign that he's equally worried. ...and you know, actually
Nil: or a "oh good i'm not crazy maybe he is just doing it accidentally"
Kira: I think the biggest sign is the icon choice for "...well I'm at least going to wait to see how much of it was the island's doing."
Nil: ahaha
Kira: That threw both Souji and me, at the time
Nil: keywords without me realizing it
Kira: I always assume that icon means keywords >>;
Nil: it was meant at the time to just be a raise of eyebrows and "woah, hey, i'm not getting ahead of myself again"
Kira: just because it's SUCH a strong face.
Nil: ahaha
Kira: and hm
Nil: it was! just not keywording ...or so i thought
Kira: ^^; Well. It doesn't exactly come up often in threads. but yeah ...yeah, I can see it, now that my attention has been brought to it.
Nil: they haven't had serious conversation in a while, for one >> which is, lo and behold, intentional on wolfram's part.
Kira: Heh. I was wondering.
Nil: i mean
Kira: ...and it's partly intentional on Souji's part, too. He's been backing off of his island friendships a little because he knows he's too involved which makes me want to SLAP HIM
Nil: didn't you think the whole "i slept with hijikata-san" subject kind of went by really fast and they kind of ignored it? AHAHA.
Kira: but ... I can see why.
Nil: :<
Kira: and yeah. They're both trying to back off, whee. >_< I wonder how long that's actually going to last, with them?
Nil: well that conversation was a very interesting one over here.
Kira: Oh?
Nil: (it won't go away till wolfram snaps, on his part) But yes. Wolfram really wasn't bothered by it, and it disturbed him because he had both no care as in jealousy, etc OR the urge to tease souji about it. Revulsion at the topic. Actually. I think that's the only situation where he's been forced to realize that he's NOT feeling things like he should and used to.
Kira: ...haah
Nil: Which makes him more upset and panicked and wondering what the hell is wrong with him. Thus the immediate running away from the topic. >>
Kira: :<
Nil: ?
Kira: *cough* Worried about him, is all >> Poor kid.
Nil: ... He's more than three times your age.
Kira: This doesn't stop him from being a poor kid. ...And making me want to feed him cookies or something.
Nil: Wolfram interjects that he can take care of himself just fine.
Kira: Yes, but he could use more hugs and cookies in his life. <3
Nil: ... *KICKS MUSE* Goddammit.
Kira: ...Oh?
Nil: He didn't say anything. He's just so damn EMO.
Kira: Yeah. Well... I can't say it's not in character >>;
Nil: Ugh. Do you know how depressing it is to see someone that relies very deeply on people close themselves off like this?
Kira: ...Dude. I play SOUJI.
Nil: This is true. But he ALWAYS represses things. 8D
Kira: ...but yes it is indeed very depressing to see Wolfram doing it >> (and ha. souji just learned really early to shut himself off from people. and has been that way to some degree ever since)
Nil: Yes, but he still reacts to things in his head even if he doesn't show it, right?
Kira: *feeds Wolfram cookies, dammit.* ...Uh, sometimes?
Nil: Better than never.
Kira: >>; It depends on the topic. But yeah. It's starting to sound to me like Wolfram's actually worked himself into a genuine depressive episode here >>;
Nil: Wolfram's over here in his head tearing apart the piece that emotionally responds to things. Bare-handed. Absolute mutilation.
Kira: See above.
Nil: YOU THINK.
Kira: See, now we just need a shrink--
Nil: .-. Notice that i usually avoid talking the island version of him. He hurts me less when i leave him alone about it.
Kira: ...kjla;jklsdf :<
Nil: And there's one thing about it that makes it the worst. ._. He's more mentally unhealthy than he's ever been, but everyone thinks he's making massive improvements to himself. He's a perfectly functioning individual, really! ...Unless you realize he's doing it for all the wrong reasons.
Kira: ...Yeah, it's true. I notice that this looks, on the outside, like calm and maturity. ....Now if only we could introduce him to Hisoka.
Nil: .... Yeah. Hisoka would probably immediately... vomit. ._. That's the thing! It's not active emotion! He's basically just letting it rot. >>
Kira: ...Wow. At which point Tsuzuki would (a) help Hisoka, (b) ask what the hell is wrong with that poor kid, and (c) harass the hell out of Wolfram until he was BETTER DAMMIT because Tsuzuki is constitutionally incapable of not helping people >>; ...
Nil: ahaha.
Kira: and erk.
Nil: It's like tsuzuki's self-hate, kind of. Not "i feel this way right now", rather, "this is how my existence feels". >> But obviously it's not hurting anyone! It's helpful and Yuuri and Souji are happier for it! Everyone wins, right? ._.
Kira: ...augh. :<
Nil: This is why I was looking for that one word. Not selfless or altruistic. The one that literally means irrationally destroying one's self for the sake of other people. Not even a martyr, exactly.
Kira: Self-sacrificing?
Nil: That sounds too noble a term. ._.
Kira: well, you can always go for harsher ways to put it? self-immolating or such?
Nil: yerp
Kira: >>;
Nil: Self-sacrificing makes it sound like one is suffering because they believe the person they're doing it for is worth protecting/etc, not that they think they're not worth a bother. <<
Kira: ._.
Nil: << Well really. It makes sense why he thinks that, from his point of view. His over emotional tendencies caused all the problems before. He's the issue, not anyone else >>
Kira: ...and I may point out that Wolfram does tend to blame more on himself than he really ought to >>
Nil: thus the "from his point of view" disclaimer
Kira: Heh, true. But still. Man. I still don't know what Souji would do if he twigged to this, but because he's trying to withdraw enough that he'll feel ready to follow Hijikata the way he ought to again, I doubt he's going to figure it out. DX
Nil: I hope he doesn't.
Kira: Oh? Because of Wolfram's probable reaction, or... what?
Nil: It'll just make things worse on Souji and won't help Wolfram at all. It's not something to be just kinda sorta picked at. It needs to be gutted in one single traumatic experience. That's the only way it's going to go away. >>
Kira: Hah. So... you're hoping that Yuuri pushes things far enough to make Wolfram have a complete breakdown, thus actually lancing the wound to stop it festering -- basically?
Nil: Yep. Souji, although shocked and perhaps hurt that Wolfram was hiding a Really Big Deal from him, will know enough to tell the confused Yuuri that Wolfram is terrified because he's afraid Yuuri's just leading him on again, and that it hurt him terribly the last time that happened.
Kira: *nod* I think he wouldn't be hurt.
Nil: Oh good.
Kira: But yes, he would be able to explain that to Yuuri. ...while Wolfram... what, finds a cave to hide in? >>;
Nil: No. He wouldn't run.
Kira: ...oh?
Nil: After the hysterics he'd go cold, silent, and mildly traumatized. Have to do at least a feeble attempt at acting like nothing's wrong, after all.
Kira: ...which would convince no one at that point
Nil: Now if Souji went to talk to Wolfram while he was like that, Souji would be massively worried. >>
Kira: particularly if he was cold and silent. ... Hmm. Yes. He would.
Nil: Not cold as in mean.
Kira: No, no, I understand.
Nil: Cold as in "i feel nothing and react to nothing".
Kira: Cold as in cold. unemotional.
Nil: yaaay
Kira: ^^
Nil: --;
Kira: Souji might actually try to drag Wolfram off somewhere where he doesn't have to hide his emotions in response to that.
Nil: ...That's the thing.
Kira: I have no idea if that'd work, but it's sort of Souji's answer to things >>; I doubt it would, actually
Nil: >> Yeah. Um.
Kira: since the repression goes deeper than surface
Nil: Well. That isn't repression we're talking. That is what he's actually feeling like. <<;
Kira: *nod* But I mean that he has subconscious emotional repression going on because he can't consciously cope with those emotions and doesn't want to inflict them on others. So, yeah, he's actually feeling like that, but not because the emotions don't exist. Just because they're being dammed up below the conscious level. >>; thus the snapping potential--
Nil: Well. We're talking about after he's snapped. There is no dam.
Kira: *nod* ...just more burnout -- hm?
Nil: No. Overload to the point of... well. Emotional catatonia, if you will.
Kira: ...right. :<
Nil: And man. I don't even want to know how Yukina would react to that.
Kira: Yukina'd probably (a) panic and (b) go yell at him if he didn't snap out of it
Nil: Both of which he would ignore. >>
Kira: ...
Nil: That's what I meant.
Kira: Heh. He might get to see her temper demonstrated, then
Nil: Ahaha;;
Kira: But yeah, I understand. ...and kind of hope he DOES end up snapping quite soon, since this sounds like one of those things that is just going to get worse >>;;
Nil: Yep. Because this deal of Yuuri kind of being nice to him more and more? Just like Souji trying to pick at it. Makes him withdraw and panic more.
Kira: ...yeah. I can see that.
Nil: Again, over reactivity
Kira: previous statement stands. :< but yes. He is sensitive.
Nil: a nudge just builds his defenses higher
Kira: *nod* Though I imagine it also increases the pressure, and thus the likelihood that it'll all go. ._.
Nil: It's going to be very bad when it does, just because I predict his breaking point being very high. He's not going to start anything remotely sexual, of course. And with how Yuuri is...
Kira: Yuuri's hardly likely to for quite a while.
Nil: Yerp. Wolfram wouldn't snap unless there was an impending sexual situation. Say, like that one post just before Yuuri's birthday? private situation and heavy making out.
Kira: Since that's the point where his panic and revulsion would overcome the barriers he's got against emotional imposition on people >>
Nil: yep
Kira: :<
Nil: We'll see. Katie said that recently Yuuri has changed his mind DRASTICALLY. Not just because she got the muse back. Apparently Wolfram's regression was a Very Good Idea.
Kira: Heh. Good! Drastically as in "actually willing to be very proactive" -- of the sort it sounds like he'll have to be? ^^;
Nil: ...Well. I think Yuuri's actually flirting with him. O_o He's taking advantage of Wolfram weak points intentionally. And coming from Yuuri, that is very direct flirting.
Kira: You know, that's very true. ...Heh.
Nil: You know what I'm talking about, then. XD
Kira: Yup. Really, Yuuri's on the Special side when it comes to squishy romantic feelings XD;
Nil: The fact that Yuuri hates being 'cute' but he went all wibbly at Wolfram going "pleaaase help me with my paperwork wolfram pleaaaase~? ^-^?"
Kira: And awww!
Nil: Actually, I think he's cute. >>;
Kira: Man. That's pretty direct flirting.
Nil: For Yuuri? Definitely.
Kira: (Yuuri IS cute. But cute in the way that a puppy stumbling over its own feet is cute.)
Nil: That's the thing Yuuri, once he gets an idea in his head, can be VERY deliberate.
Kira: Adorable, but not incredibly competent >>; developing any kind of skill at manipulation is actually a very big step. *nod*
Nil: Once he makes a decision he sticks to it. >> Aaaand he's made a decision.
Kira: I've seen him a few times actually being stubborn, though I'm still pretty early in the series. And good for him for making a decision. ...Now we get to see if he can deal with Wolfram flipping out when that happens, hm. >>;
Nil: Actually, I'm wondering how i didn't see it before. Wolfram being so shut down, I mean. Since he treats Yuuri COMPLETELY differently and actually backs off whenever he can if he sounds too familiar with him. ( Here you go.)
Kira: ...Huh. You're right. I hadn't read past the first four tags of that or so -- that's about all there was last time I saw it...
Nil: the fact that he went :< and then :D when wolfram relented.
Kira: Yeah. That got Wolfram to ego-reboot at him, for a bit. which is a very ... odd sight, really >>
Nil: ...snap katie's still tagging ritsuka on this. I think i'll tag back. *had missed that last tag orz*
Kira: ...Ritsuka what where?
Nil: ritsuka's thread in yuuri's post
Kira: Ah, right ^^
Nil: IT'S STILL GOING SO I CAN STILL CONTINUE OURS, THEN.
Kira: ♥
Somehow this all started with a discussion about the differences between Wolfram in the novels and Wolfram in the anime. O_o; (And it is too an essay. Close enough - I IMed paragraphs. >()
Nil: >> The key difference between my Wolfram and the other two?
Kira: ?
Nil: He realized that people take you more seriously when you don't try so hard. Even Conrad, for example. Instead of bitching at him like he used to he goes ">> yeah you can think that but you'll realize later that I was right."
Kira: *nod* You know, I have to agree that Wolfram's gotten way better at dealing with people since he arrived. ...All that emotional trauma made him a better person!
Nil: ._. His emotions have shifted to other categories.
Kira: Oh?
Nil: He killed the part that cares about rejection and what people think of him and moved it all into the "caring FOR (at any cost)" category. ><; Which makes sense, no matter which person he interacts with that we're talking about.
Kira: *cough* Selfless.
Nil: In action, but not in purpose.
Kira: So you claim, but..!
Nil: He ignores how people react to him because he doesn't want to have to deal with it.
Kira: ...which shows more maturity in itself, really. I don't think he was deliberately paying attention to how people reacted, say, two years ago. He's just gotten to the point of realizing it doesn't matter. ^^
Nil: >> Maybe.
Kira: ... *supraiz wolfram glomp 'cause he continues to be cute*
Nil: ...wtf O_o?
Kira: Well, he is. ♥
Nil: He's depressing. That's what he is. Island version, anyway. AU version is happy Wolfram. Island.... Ugh. There is so much crap there that I don't want to touch.
Kira: ...Well. We'll get Yuuri's head on straight eventually? -_-;; Is there anything new? Or just what I've heard already?
Nil: For the two of them? Mm, nothing other than the paperwork thread. Actually. Wolfram's kind of funny about it. He's only reacting the way he is because his senses are deadened. --Which is a Very Good Thing.
Kira: ...It beats sitting there and crying, I'll admit.
Nil: No. I mean. When Yuuri does things right. You remember what I said about over reaction?
Kira: Yep.
Nil: Well. Considering what's happened in the past... If Wolfram acted on his mental impulses before they go through that filter of mellowing everything out? Yuuri would find himself brutally pushed away, very directly, SO incredibly fast.
Kira: ...Huh. Because Wolfram is trying to avoid getting close again? Or what?
Nil: Not just Yuuri. I imagine when they actually get somewhere substantial Wolfram is going to have a breakdown, really. He wants nothing to do with any of it. --Which makes me now understand his reactions to that private thread with Katy's Wolfram so much better.
Kira: ...*now really curious* By "any of it" you mean everything going on at home? Or just the entire situation?
Nil: No. I mean. He wants nothing to do with being romantically involved with anyone or devoted to anyone. Ever. As far as he is right now, anyway. >>
Kira: ...wow :< Okay, that's a pretty severe overreaction right there, I admit. >>;
Nil: It's been going that way for quite a while, really. Just been getting more severe the more he has to deal with it.
Kira: given the sort of crap he's been through the last few months romantically, I can... really understand why. -_-
Nil: That's why he's put up with Souji kissing him by accident without freaking. It... doesn't mean anything to him anymore. ._.
Kira: ...burned out on the whole concept, huh.
Nil: I think burned out is a massive understatement. Repulsion is a better word. (To the situation, obviously. Not Souji.) I mean, the honestea is a good example. He was being completely honest and yet ignored all connotations of romantic feelings he might have been feeling. It's running that deep. :< Thus the impending emotional breakdown that is probably going to scare the hell out of Yuuri.
Kira: ...Yuuri could use a bit of being scared, really >>; He didn't do it deliberately, but he does have a habit of not noticing things until his face is rubbed in them. Though, to be quite fair? Souji hasn't noticed that himself.
Nil: >> Ahaha, well. That avoidance of romantic involvement takes a chunk out of how honestly his feelings come through to Souji, as well. Sorry. Everyone is in that filter. D:
Kira: Heh. It's okay.
Nil: It's in the little festering locked box with the Conrad topic. Though this one is MUCH more dangerous.
Kira: And definitely more, er, topical.
Nil: The Conrad topic also has the weight of other peoples' perceptions in it. Which makes it difficult for him to resolve it, because he can't decide which part is more important, and since he's ashamed, he doesn't want to talk about it. This other topic has nothing to do with other people OR his sense of pride. It's just there because it's messing him up that badly >> Not to, yknow, make wolfram sound like a endless pit of Festering Angst and therefore More Emo and Importantly Depressed than U.
Kira: *cough* No, but he is apparently a pit of festering angst at the moment >>; It's probably for the best that Souji hasn't picked up on that, actually. I... think he might decide not to do anything about it.
Nil: That's perfectly awesome. >>
Kira: not because he doesn't care! but because he doesn't know WHAT to do.
Nil: Wolfram would blink at him and ask if he was crazy for thinking something was wrong. See, Wolfram... Well. He doesn't always directly let things out. But he at least has ways of letting things slip. If he likes you it may not seem like it, but he lets it out via fussing. He doesn't just bottle things up, especially strong emotions. ...This is why I'm going "something is going to give and it's going to give hard". And the WORST thing about it? If he snaps with Yuuri and it freaks Yuuri out, I'm hoping that Yuuri will realize that it's just something Wolfram needs to get over and will be fine. Yuuri backing off would be the worst thing to do and would only make it much much worse. ^^;
Kira: ...Yeah, that's very true. >>;
Nil: (But to be honest, even though Yuuri can be an idiot sometimes, backing off would be actually the most reasonable reaction.)
Kira: If your fiance flips out and has a breakdown at you about how he doesn't want to be romantically involved with anyone ever no no hell no. ...then yeah, I can see how backing off would help >>
Nil: ...in addition to being so adamantly FOR it, before, yes. "....Why is he so mad at me...?" v_v; And really, if THAT happened, i think souji would also be massively confused. ...But really, the beginning of the honestea thread? i think Wolfram was 'saying' something different than I thought at the time.
Kira: ? I think I need to go back and re-read that, then
Nil: Read it and tell me what you think.
Kira: *nod*
Nil: ...Yeah. Up to all the "....."s and the "warning warning mister smith". (Actually, rereading it makes me more convinced that he meant something other than what it seemed.)
Kira: ...Hmm. I can't see it, myself. What does it look like to you?
Nil: Three words. >> "Souji, I'm scared."
Kira: Oooh. ...You know, I can see that interpretation, too.
Nil: Considering he's sounding kind of hopeful that the island's just being weird...
Kira: *nod* And is babbling. A lot. >>
Nil: And hell. The biggest hint is "Did he do something right for once?" ">> ... I think so." ...and he's not smiling at all.
Kira: ... *nod* That's what I spotted, actually, as the questionable note ^^;
Nil: using emo icons, actually O_o HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THIS WHEN IT WAS HAPPENING?
Kira: But -- he looked sort of interpretable-as-shy, and Souji had just reacted VERY oddly to his being wigged and excited
Nil: The fact that Wolfram didn't call him on sounding cynical, though?
Kira: He sort of did in asterisks... but yeah, I see what you mean. It's a sign that he's equally worried. ...and you know, actually
Nil: or a "oh good i'm not crazy maybe he is just doing it accidentally"
Kira: I think the biggest sign is the icon choice for "...well I'm at least going to wait to see how much of it was the island's doing."
Nil: ahaha
Kira: That threw both Souji and me, at the time
Nil: keywords without me realizing it
Kira: I always assume that icon means keywords >>;
Nil: it was meant at the time to just be a raise of eyebrows and "woah, hey, i'm not getting ahead of myself again"
Kira: just because it's SUCH a strong face.
Nil: ahaha
Kira: and hm
Nil: it was! just not keywording ...or so i thought
Kira: ^^; Well. It doesn't exactly come up often in threads. but yeah ...yeah, I can see it, now that my attention has been brought to it.
Nil: they haven't had serious conversation in a while, for one >> which is, lo and behold, intentional on wolfram's part.
Kira: Heh. I was wondering.
Nil: i mean
Kira: ...and it's partly intentional on Souji's part, too. He's been backing off of his island friendships a little because he knows he's too involved which makes me want to SLAP HIM
Nil: didn't you think the whole "i slept with hijikata-san" subject kind of went by really fast and they kind of ignored it? AHAHA.
Kira: but ... I can see why.
Nil: :<
Kira: and yeah. They're both trying to back off, whee. >_< I wonder how long that's actually going to last, with them?
Nil: well that conversation was a very interesting one over here.
Kira: Oh?
Nil: (it won't go away till wolfram snaps, on his part) But yes. Wolfram really wasn't bothered by it, and it disturbed him because he had both no care as in jealousy, etc OR the urge to tease souji about it. Revulsion at the topic. Actually. I think that's the only situation where he's been forced to realize that he's NOT feeling things like he should and used to.
Kira: ...haah
Nil: Which makes him more upset and panicked and wondering what the hell is wrong with him. Thus the immediate running away from the topic. >>
Kira: :<
Nil: ?
Kira: *cough* Worried about him, is all >> Poor kid.
Nil: ... He's more than three times your age.
Kira: This doesn't stop him from being a poor kid. ...And making me want to feed him cookies or something.
Nil: Wolfram interjects that he can take care of himself just fine.
Kira: Yes, but he could use more hugs and cookies in his life. <3
Nil: ... *KICKS MUSE* Goddammit.
Kira: ...Oh?
Nil: He didn't say anything. He's just so damn EMO.
Kira: Yeah. Well... I can't say it's not in character >>;
Nil: Ugh. Do you know how depressing it is to see someone that relies very deeply on people close themselves off like this?
Kira: ...Dude. I play SOUJI.
Nil: This is true. But he ALWAYS represses things. 8D
Kira: ...but yes it is indeed very depressing to see Wolfram doing it >> (and ha. souji just learned really early to shut himself off from people. and has been that way to some degree ever since)
Nil: Yes, but he still reacts to things in his head even if he doesn't show it, right?
Kira: *feeds Wolfram cookies, dammit.* ...Uh, sometimes?
Nil: Better than never.
Kira: >>; It depends on the topic. But yeah. It's starting to sound to me like Wolfram's actually worked himself into a genuine depressive episode here >>;
Nil: Wolfram's over here in his head tearing apart the piece that emotionally responds to things. Bare-handed. Absolute mutilation.
Kira: See above.
Nil: YOU THINK.
Kira: See, now we just need a shrink--
Nil: .-. Notice that i usually avoid talking the island version of him. He hurts me less when i leave him alone about it.
Kira: ...kjla;jklsdf :<
Nil: And there's one thing about it that makes it the worst. ._. He's more mentally unhealthy than he's ever been, but everyone thinks he's making massive improvements to himself. He's a perfectly functioning individual, really! ...Unless you realize he's doing it for all the wrong reasons.
Kira: ...Yeah, it's true. I notice that this looks, on the outside, like calm and maturity. ....Now if only we could introduce him to Hisoka.
Nil: .... Yeah. Hisoka would probably immediately... vomit. ._. That's the thing! It's not active emotion! He's basically just letting it rot. >>
Kira: ...Wow. At which point Tsuzuki would (a) help Hisoka, (b) ask what the hell is wrong with that poor kid, and (c) harass the hell out of Wolfram until he was BETTER DAMMIT because Tsuzuki is constitutionally incapable of not helping people >>; ...
Nil: ahaha.
Kira: and erk.
Nil: It's like tsuzuki's self-hate, kind of. Not "i feel this way right now", rather, "this is how my existence feels". >> But obviously it's not hurting anyone! It's helpful and Yuuri and Souji are happier for it! Everyone wins, right? ._.
Kira: ...augh. :<
Nil: This is why I was looking for that one word. Not selfless or altruistic. The one that literally means irrationally destroying one's self for the sake of other people. Not even a martyr, exactly.
Kira: Self-sacrificing?
Nil: That sounds too noble a term. ._.
Kira: well, you can always go for harsher ways to put it? self-immolating or such?
Nil: yerp
Kira: >>;
Nil: Self-sacrificing makes it sound like one is suffering because they believe the person they're doing it for is worth protecting/etc, not that they think they're not worth a bother. <<
Kira: ._.
Nil: << Well really. It makes sense why he thinks that, from his point of view. His over emotional tendencies caused all the problems before. He's the issue, not anyone else >>
Kira: ...and I may point out that Wolfram does tend to blame more on himself than he really ought to >>
Nil: thus the "from his point of view" disclaimer
Kira: Heh, true. But still. Man. I still don't know what Souji would do if he twigged to this, but because he's trying to withdraw enough that he'll feel ready to follow Hijikata the way he ought to again, I doubt he's going to figure it out. DX
Nil: I hope he doesn't.
Kira: Oh? Because of Wolfram's probable reaction, or... what?
Nil: It'll just make things worse on Souji and won't help Wolfram at all. It's not something to be just kinda sorta picked at. It needs to be gutted in one single traumatic experience. That's the only way it's going to go away. >>
Kira: Hah. So... you're hoping that Yuuri pushes things far enough to make Wolfram have a complete breakdown, thus actually lancing the wound to stop it festering -- basically?
Nil: Yep. Souji, although shocked and perhaps hurt that Wolfram was hiding a Really Big Deal from him, will know enough to tell the confused Yuuri that Wolfram is terrified because he's afraid Yuuri's just leading him on again, and that it hurt him terribly the last time that happened.
Kira: *nod* I think he wouldn't be hurt.
Nil: Oh good.
Kira: But yes, he would be able to explain that to Yuuri. ...while Wolfram... what, finds a cave to hide in? >>;
Nil: No. He wouldn't run.
Kira: ...oh?
Nil: After the hysterics he'd go cold, silent, and mildly traumatized. Have to do at least a feeble attempt at acting like nothing's wrong, after all.
Kira: ...which would convince no one at that point
Nil: Now if Souji went to talk to Wolfram while he was like that, Souji would be massively worried. >>
Kira: particularly if he was cold and silent. ... Hmm. Yes. He would.
Nil: Not cold as in mean.
Kira: No, no, I understand.
Nil: Cold as in "i feel nothing and react to nothing".
Kira: Cold as in cold. unemotional.
Nil: yaaay
Kira: ^^
Nil: --;
Kira: Souji might actually try to drag Wolfram off somewhere where he doesn't have to hide his emotions in response to that.
Nil: ...That's the thing.
Kira: I have no idea if that'd work, but it's sort of Souji's answer to things >>; I doubt it would, actually
Nil: >> Yeah. Um.
Kira: since the repression goes deeper than surface
Nil: Well. That isn't repression we're talking. That is what he's actually feeling like. <<;
Kira: *nod* But I mean that he has subconscious emotional repression going on because he can't consciously cope with those emotions and doesn't want to inflict them on others. So, yeah, he's actually feeling like that, but not because the emotions don't exist. Just because they're being dammed up below the conscious level. >>; thus the snapping potential--
Nil: Well. We're talking about after he's snapped. There is no dam.
Kira: *nod* ...just more burnout -- hm?
Nil: No. Overload to the point of... well. Emotional catatonia, if you will.
Kira: ...right. :<
Nil: And man. I don't even want to know how Yukina would react to that.
Kira: Yukina'd probably (a) panic and (b) go yell at him if he didn't snap out of it
Nil: Both of which he would ignore. >>
Kira: ...
Nil: That's what I meant.
Kira: Heh. He might get to see her temper demonstrated, then
Nil: Ahaha;;
Kira: But yeah, I understand. ...and kind of hope he DOES end up snapping quite soon, since this sounds like one of those things that is just going to get worse >>;;
Nil: Yep. Because this deal of Yuuri kind of being nice to him more and more? Just like Souji trying to pick at it. Makes him withdraw and panic more.
Kira: ...yeah. I can see that.
Nil: Again, over reactivity
Kira: previous statement stands. :< but yes. He is sensitive.
Nil: a nudge just builds his defenses higher
Kira: *nod* Though I imagine it also increases the pressure, and thus the likelihood that it'll all go. ._.
Nil: It's going to be very bad when it does, just because I predict his breaking point being very high. He's not going to start anything remotely sexual, of course. And with how Yuuri is...
Kira: Yuuri's hardly likely to for quite a while.
Nil: Yerp. Wolfram wouldn't snap unless there was an impending sexual situation. Say, like that one post just before Yuuri's birthday? private situation and heavy making out.
Kira: Since that's the point where his panic and revulsion would overcome the barriers he's got against emotional imposition on people >>
Nil: yep
Kira: :<
Nil: We'll see. Katie said that recently Yuuri has changed his mind DRASTICALLY. Not just because she got the muse back. Apparently Wolfram's regression was a Very Good Idea.
Kira: Heh. Good! Drastically as in "actually willing to be very proactive" -- of the sort it sounds like he'll have to be? ^^;
Nil: ...Well. I think Yuuri's actually flirting with him. O_o He's taking advantage of Wolfram weak points intentionally. And coming from Yuuri, that is very direct flirting.
Kira: You know, that's very true. ...Heh.
Nil: You know what I'm talking about, then. XD
Kira: Yup. Really, Yuuri's on the Special side when it comes to squishy romantic feelings XD;
Nil: The fact that Yuuri hates being 'cute' but he went all wibbly at Wolfram going "pleaaase help me with my paperwork wolfram pleaaaase~? ^-^?"
Kira: And awww!
Nil: Actually, I think he's cute. >>;
Kira: Man. That's pretty direct flirting.
Nil: For Yuuri? Definitely.
Kira: (Yuuri IS cute. But cute in the way that a puppy stumbling over its own feet is cute.)
Nil: That's the thing Yuuri, once he gets an idea in his head, can be VERY deliberate.
Kira: Adorable, but not incredibly competent >>; developing any kind of skill at manipulation is actually a very big step. *nod*
Nil: Once he makes a decision he sticks to it. >> Aaaand he's made a decision.
Kira: I've seen him a few times actually being stubborn, though I'm still pretty early in the series. And good for him for making a decision. ...Now we get to see if he can deal with Wolfram flipping out when that happens, hm. >>;
Nil: Actually, I'm wondering how i didn't see it before. Wolfram being so shut down, I mean. Since he treats Yuuri COMPLETELY differently and actually backs off whenever he can if he sounds too familiar with him. ( Here you go.)
Kira: ...Huh. You're right. I hadn't read past the first four tags of that or so -- that's about all there was last time I saw it...
Nil: the fact that he went :< and then :D when wolfram relented.
Kira: Yeah. That got Wolfram to ego-reboot at him, for a bit. which is a very ... odd sight, really >>
Nil: ...snap katie's still tagging ritsuka on this. I think i'll tag back. *had missed that last tag orz*
Kira: ...Ritsuka what where?
Nil: ritsuka's thread in yuuri's post
Kira: Ah, right ^^
Nil: IT'S STILL GOING SO I CAN STILL CONTINUE OURS, THEN.
Kira: ♥