Hmm, that's a side of bullying that I'd never thought about. I've always assumed that there is some kind of feeling of satisfaction - a high of some kind - for the bully and at the same time there is an emotional damage that needs that high.
But a logical decision about *who* to bully does make a lot of sense as does the idea of the mob mentality being some kind of unconscious logical choice influenced by emotion.
Just my thoughts, but if bullying is primal logic then that would indicate Vulcans are susceptible to other psycho-biology - which'd explain Pon Farr as a biological issue more than a sociological one.
A biological issue does make sense in those circumstances, although I do wonder at the reasons why biology would evolve that far. If we assume that all Vulcans do have emotions and use logic as a method of to control and discipline those feelings then I cannot accept the theory (not sure if this is fanon or canon) that Pon Farr allows Vulcans as a species to continue by being the only time they mate. I'm sure that I've seen that idea hanging around at times. There is no logical reason not to express their emotions (love and desire) in a sexual way outside Pon Farr, although they would perhaps plan these things a little better than humans :-D
And....my point has given, wandered off and taken a nap somewhere. Sorry.
I take the rule of thumb that we got Nimoy!Spock after he'd been at Starfleet a few years with space as a peaceful, happy place that the Enterprise is sent to explore
That I totally have been assuming, although I might not have expressed it well :-)
I also think that the lynch-pin to the Kirk-Spock friendship dynamic is the Kobayashi Maru and how it played out in both universes. So I'm a bit biased when it comes to separating the timeline point there. :-D
:-D For me, I'm assuming that Spock's timeline deviated at the moment he met Kirk. The Jim in the original universe was in some ways a different character: he was trying to live up to his fathe rather than rebelling, he grew into his command naturally rather than having it thrust at him. Therefore from that moment when they meet, Quinto!Spock is experiencing and being influenced by a different sort of person. That's got to lead to some differences in the way that this Spock evolves compared to Spock Prime.
Um, possibly that was my long winded way of saying "Word!"?
Hmm, that's a side of bullying that I'd never thought about. I've always assumed that there is some kind of feeling of satisfaction - a high of some kind - for the bully and at the same time there is an emotional damage that needs that high.
Bullying is all about having a competitive edge and beating the opposition, but it's really replacing a more directly fatal pass-time, it's like fencing is to duelling. The high a bully gets is pure adrenaline, that's why they do it again and again to the same set of victims. Occasionally there's the emotional satisfaction gained from convincing an adult that the victim is the bully (therefore receiving comfort/love as reward), but during the act itself there's nothing but the chemical rush.
But a logical decision about *who* to bully does make a lot of sense as does the idea of the mob mentality being some kind of unconscious logical choice influenced by emotion.
I think it's conscious. But I am one of those people who thinks something that's screaming for food/love at 6hrs old isn't going to grow out of that punish-reward cycle in 6 or 12 years. Especially not if they're chucked into a room with their peers and have to battle for attention because there's no defined pecking order.
A biological issue does make sense in those circumstances, although I do wonder at the reasons why biology would evolve that far.
That's assuming Pon Farr is an evolution, I think of it more as Vulcan Emotional Appendicitis. Interesting question I don't know and can't answer is: Do the Romulans have Pon Farr or did they take the 'fuckthatshit, when I'm horny - I'm horny!' blue pill?
although they would perhaps plan these things a little better than humans :-D
I want the ST09 Uhura/Spock fic. Sorry, but I can't see Uhura doing anything but grin like an idiot at the prospect of 24hrs of wild, insane, multi-position, crazy sex with her Nice Boy. And Kirk being all 'O.O' and demanding Spock pencil him in for his 35th birthday party. :-D
That I totally have been assuming, although I might not have expressed it well :-)
God, we really are on the same page. *passes the gin* This is most terrifying!
That's got to lead to some differences in the way that this Spock evolves compared to Spock Prime.
Yep, but I'm assuming their first 'meeting' was over the KM. And that the Vulcans worked in the background with the Starfleet lecturers (with a similar role by humans on Vulcan) as advisers:
1) So the Uhura/Spock situation is clarified and not a creepy!teacher thing. 2) Because I really hope Earth introduced fingerpainting and chocolate crispycakes to Vulcan before it went BANG.
I've also got it into my head that the KM itself went differently too. Shatner!Kirk never had to face it for real until Wrath of Khan, Pine!Kirk's been living in the shadow is its repercussions for his entire life. That'd give the latter a whole rack of reasons to fuck the system over and cover with the blase 'I don't like to lose' defence.
Um, possibly that was my long winded way of saying "Word!"?
Possibly, but this is great FUN! *arm flail* And I don't know a bloody thing about this subject! *panicked arm flail*
But a logical decision about *who* to bully does make a lot of sense as does the idea of the mob mentality being some kind of unconscious logical choice influenced by emotion.
Just my thoughts, but if bullying is primal logic then that would indicate Vulcans are susceptible to other psycho-biology - which'd explain Pon Farr as a biological issue more than a sociological one.
A biological issue does make sense in those circumstances, although I do wonder at the reasons why biology would evolve that far. If we assume that all Vulcans do have emotions and use logic as a method of to control and discipline those feelings then I cannot accept the theory (not sure if this is fanon or canon) that Pon Farr allows Vulcans as a species to continue by being the only time they mate. I'm sure that I've seen that idea hanging around at times. There is no logical reason not to express their emotions (love and desire) in a sexual way outside Pon Farr, although they would perhaps plan these things a little better than humans :-D
And....my point has given, wandered off and taken a nap somewhere. Sorry.
I take the rule of thumb that we got Nimoy!Spock after he'd been at Starfleet a few years with space as a peaceful, happy place that the Enterprise is sent to explore
That I totally have been assuming, although I might not have expressed it well :-)
I also think that the lynch-pin to the Kirk-Spock friendship dynamic is the Kobayashi Maru and how it played out in both universes. So I'm a bit biased when it comes to separating the timeline point there. :-D
:-D For me, I'm assuming that Spock's timeline deviated at the moment he met Kirk. The Jim in the original universe was in some ways a different character: he was trying to live up to his fathe rather than rebelling, he grew into his command naturally rather than having it thrust at him. Therefore from that moment when they meet, Quinto!Spock is experiencing and being influenced by a different sort of person. That's got to lead to some differences in the way that this Spock evolves compared to Spock Prime.
Um, possibly that was my long winded way of saying "Word!"?
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Bullying is all about having a competitive edge and beating the opposition, but it's really replacing a more directly fatal pass-time, it's like fencing is to duelling. The high a bully gets is pure adrenaline, that's why they do it again and again to the same set of victims. Occasionally there's the emotional satisfaction gained from convincing an adult that the victim is the bully (therefore receiving comfort/love as reward), but during the act itself there's nothing but the chemical rush.
But a logical decision about *who* to bully does make a lot of sense as does the idea of the mob mentality being some kind of unconscious logical choice influenced by emotion.
I think it's conscious. But I am one of those people who thinks something that's screaming for food/love at 6hrs old isn't going to grow out of that punish-reward cycle in 6 or 12 years. Especially not if they're chucked into a room with their peers and have to battle for attention because there's no defined pecking order.
A biological issue does make sense in those circumstances, although I do wonder at the reasons why biology would evolve that far.
That's assuming Pon Farr is an evolution, I think of it more as Vulcan Emotional Appendicitis. Interesting question I don't know and can't answer is: Do the Romulans have Pon Farr or did they take the 'fuckthatshit, when I'm horny - I'm horny!' blue pill?
although they would perhaps plan these things a little better than humans :-D
I want the ST09 Uhura/Spock fic. Sorry, but I can't see Uhura doing anything but grin like an idiot at the prospect of 24hrs of wild, insane, multi-position, crazy sex with her Nice Boy. And Kirk being all 'O.O' and demanding Spock pencil him in for his 35th birthday party. :-D
That I totally have been assuming, although I might not have expressed it well :-)
God, we really are on the same page. *passes the gin* This is most terrifying!
That's got to lead to some differences in the way that this Spock evolves compared to Spock Prime.
Yep, but I'm assuming their first 'meeting' was over the KM. And that the Vulcans worked in the background with the Starfleet lecturers (with a similar role by humans on Vulcan) as advisers:
1) So the Uhura/Spock situation is clarified and not a creepy!teacher thing.
2) Because I really hope Earth introduced fingerpainting and chocolate crispycakes to Vulcan before it went BANG.
I've also got it into my head that the KM itself went differently too. Shatner!Kirk never had to face it for real until Wrath of Khan, Pine!Kirk's been living in the shadow is its repercussions for his entire life. That'd give the latter a whole rack of reasons to fuck the system over and cover with the blase 'I don't like to lose' defence.
Um, possibly that was my long winded way of saying "Word!"?
Possibly, but this is great FUN! *arm flail* And I don't know a bloody thing about this subject! *panicked arm flail*
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