Villainy, ah, villainy
As threatened, some ponderings on villains and which ones do and don't make me like or even love them. And, not always related: which kind of redemption stories, both in canon and fanfic, work for me and which one's don't. First, a disclaimer: I know some people declare they prefer the villains on general principle and declare the heroes to be
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It's a thoughtful and interesting post, and I really enjoyed reading it. It strikes me, w/r/t I, Claudius, that one of the things that makes the show great is the sheer diversity of the villains. Totally agree with you on Livia and Caligula; among the secondary villains/antagonists you've also got Tiberius as a #4. And then there's Claudius himself, who despite being the protagonist ultimately has sort of the same arc as a #3, with all his family history gradually twisting him out of shape despite all his good intentions. It's fun to think of the series as what happens when you put many ( ... )
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Or if Willow had gone dark and stayed that way, and seasons 4 through 7 had had her as a villain, people...would have been upset.
Butting in to say that actually, that would have made me really happy. I feel that the writers chickened out with Willow, taking her darkside at the end of S6 and then smoothing it all over in S7 because she, you know, felt really bad, without her ever needing to acknowledge or deal with her fundamental inclination to abuse of power.
In fact, while I agree that writers do need to be really careful when they choose to take a character dark, I think the two most important things they need to consider is 1) whether they're willing to commit to following that darkness where it goes and not roll it back by fiat at a later date, and 2) how to do it in a way that is consistent with the character as already written. What I loved about Willow's arc until mid-S6 (and the magic addiction theme, which I felt was a derailment) was that ( ... )
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Re: Evil!Willow, I do agree that they chickened out there. But if they'd really gone for that, I think my own personal reaction would've really depended on when it happened, and why. If she got vamped, that could've been great (although it conceivably would've deprived us of "The Wish" and "Dopplegangland" and that would've been tragic). If it was corruption-from-too-much-magic, that could also have been done well, but yeah, the overt magic-as-addiction metaphor was kind of clunky and a derailment of the point, which was much better illustrated by messing with, e.g., the curse on Oz and werewolf-girl or messing with Tara's mind. So I'm kind of fifty-fifty on how well I'd expect Joss et al. to handle such a plotline. If, however, the tipping point was Tara's death...I'm just not all that comfortable with the "Bury Your Gays," wrathful lesbian trope as it is, and I think that would just have made it all the more glaring ( ... )
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That is really interesting about Duncan and Logan. I've watched the first season, and I assumed that all that development of Logan's character was planned. You're right, Jason Dohring has some serious charisma, and Duncan's actor... didn't, so much. I never disliked Duncan, but I certainly was not inspired by the actor's performance.
I have to laugh, though, at your description of "A rare case where a het ship got an interfering male character despised, justly or not." It is practically a shipper requirement that all Buffy/Angel shippers hate Spike and all Buffy/Spike shippers hate Angel. Also, everyone in both groups hate Riley. (Poor Riley; he doesn't get any shippers at all. He's probably the best comparison I can think of to Duncan.)
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True. He galvinates through them all.:) I also agree on Tiberius as a #4, and you have a point about Claudius. Especially considering that his "hand Rome over to an Emperor so bad that people will give up on the monarchy forever!" idea is easily as self deluded as anything the villains come up with.
I don't know, though, I think one of the biggest things that contributes to really strong attachments to villains and their becoming fandom woobies is what I think of as the Early Season Lex problem, from my days in Smallville fandom. This occurs when a character is introduced as a good or at least neutral character, one with strong sympathetic characteristics and ties to the protagonists, but gradually goes evil.I hear you, and despite only having watched six or so Smallville eps in my life, I gathered enough through fannish osmosis to understand what you're getting at ( ... )
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