Fannish 5: Five most difficult conflicts between characters that you like
I define "conflict" as something that comes from within the characters for the purpose of this meme, not as something external (i.e. interference by third party, higher circumstances etc.).
1.) Charles Xavier and Erik Lehnsherr, aka Magneto. (X-Men in various incarnations.) Now these two exist in dozens of somewhat differing continuities, in comicverse, canon AUs like Neil Gaiman's 1602, in cartoons, and now, depending on whether or not you count First Class as a prequel or as a reboot, also in the movieverse, but for me for any incarnation of Xavier and Magneto to emotionally hook me, three core elements have to be maintained: a) the relationship starts as friendship, b) the fallout is for ideological reasons, not because of sudden loathing,, disrespect etc., and c) said ideological reasons are passionately held by both parties and thus while the basic affection remains, they really can not be surrendered. I like a reconciliation and fix it story as much as the next fangirl (and when the occasional canon continuity does it, as when Excalibur had Xavier and Magneto living together in Genosha, I feel mushy), but to me the conflict is part of the attraction the characters hold for me. I need both of them to have right and wrong elements in their reasoning, not just one side to be right, and I don't want a happily ever after where one of them basically says "okay, I realize now you were right all the time, let's have sex lunch".
2.) Laura Roslin and Gaius Baltar (Battlestar Galactica). As much as I agree with a lot of the complaints re: the later BSG seasons, I will always maintain the Laura-Gaius dynamic was pure genius and one of the best things about the show. Why? Because it's never as simple as "noble president and worthless selfish traitor", though yes, Roslin is noble, and Baltar is selfish (and occasionally a traitor). The clash between looking-out-for-number-one Gaius and living-for-her-people Laura wouldn't have gripped me half as much if it wasn't also between Laura's ruthlessness and Gaius' surprising lack-of-hate-for-any-side humanity now and then; if the "how do I treat Gaius Baltar, knowing what he did?" didn't become a core ethical challenge for Laura Roslin, and Gaius Baltar hadn't these "why-don't-you-like-me-Laura-dammit-I-just-saved-your-life-AGAIN" blinkers. Also the actors are golden in any scenes they share.
3.) Patty Hewes and Ellen Parsons (Damages). Starts out as your basic pragmatic user-mentor/idealistic protegée dynamic and becomes something vastly more complicated. (Attempted murder early on will do that for you.) As will projected family issues, potential successor power play and jockeying for who-needs-whom-more positions. I wasn't completely happy with the writing of Ellen in the fourth season, but the third season was fantastic in this regard, and my s4 nitpicks notwithstanding, the Patty & Ellen dynamic, whether as allies or antagonists or both (especially both), whether they're screwing each other over or helping each other beat the system or both, is pretty much unique for female characters on current tv. A difficult conflict? You bet. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
4.) Toby Ziegler and Jed Bartlet (The West Wing). I still regard it as a personal failing that I'm unable to write the big epic post show story about these two I want to, but I did try to capture what fascinates me about this very, VERY conflicted relationship in this short vignette. What do I see as their core conflict? There's the big ethical dimension, to be sure (Toby appointing himself as conscience of not just the administration in general but Jed Bartlett in particular, the president not always living up to the man Toby wants him to be), but another aspect I see is that this is in its way a twisty take on the writer and muse story. And I love this about it.
5.) Londo Mollari and G'Kar (Babylon 5). In a way the reverse of the Magneto and Xavier dynamic in that they start out as enemies and end up as, well, that's incredibly difficult to summ up in brief, given entire manifestos get written about it. I was torn whether or not to include them because the original Narn and Centauri conflict that forms their background and to some degree them wasn't started by them. But their own decisions of how to deal with this and the other situations they find themselves in are so crucial that I decided they qualify anyway. Just as Londo would not have responded to any other Narn the way he did to G'Kar, the same is true for G'Kar and any other Centauri, both in their enmity and their later alliance-of-necessity-turned-friendship-turned-whatever-you-want-to-call-it. To give but one of many examples: take G'Kar's immediate reaction in a core s2 scene from The Coming of Shadows upon learning a certain spoilery plot point has just happened. Is it "those damned Centauri are at it again" or "I never should have trusted any Centauri!"? Nope. It's "he betrayed me!" The personal is political and the political is personal, indeed. And is the conflict between them a difficult one? Given that it forms the core arc of the arc show to end all arc shows, you might say so, yes. :)
This entry was originally posted at http://selenak.dreamwidth.org/749403.html. Comment there or here, as you wish.
1.) Charles Xavier and Erik Lehnsherr, aka Magneto. (X-Men in various incarnations.) Now these two exist in dozens of somewhat differing continuities, in comicverse, canon AUs like Neil Gaiman's 1602, in cartoons, and now, depending on whether or not you count First Class as a prequel or as a reboot, also in the movieverse, but for me for any incarnation of Xavier and Magneto to emotionally hook me, three core elements have to be maintained: a) the relationship starts as friendship, b) the fallout is for ideological reasons, not because of sudden loathing,, disrespect etc., and c) said ideological reasons are passionately held by both parties and thus while the basic affection remains, they really can not be surrendered. I like a reconciliation and fix it story as much as the next fangirl (and when the occasional canon continuity does it, as when Excalibur had Xavier and Magneto living together in Genosha, I feel mushy), but to me the conflict is part of the attraction the characters hold for me. I need both of them to have right and wrong elements in their reasoning, not just one side to be right, and I don't want a happily ever after where one of them basically says "okay, I realize now you were right all the time, let's have sex lunch".
2.) Laura Roslin and Gaius Baltar (Battlestar Galactica). As much as I agree with a lot of the complaints re: the later BSG seasons, I will always maintain the Laura-Gaius dynamic was pure genius and one of the best things about the show. Why? Because it's never as simple as "noble president and worthless selfish traitor", though yes, Roslin is noble, and Baltar is selfish (and occasionally a traitor). The clash between looking-out-for-number-one Gaius and living-for-her-people Laura wouldn't have gripped me half as much if it wasn't also between Laura's ruthlessness and Gaius' surprising lack-of-hate-for-any-side humanity now and then; if the "how do I treat Gaius Baltar, knowing what he did?" didn't become a core ethical challenge for Laura Roslin, and Gaius Baltar hadn't these "why-don't-you-like-me-Laura-dammit-I-just-saved-your-life-AGAIN" blinkers. Also the actors are golden in any scenes they share.
3.) Patty Hewes and Ellen Parsons (Damages). Starts out as your basic pragmatic user-mentor/idealistic protegée dynamic and becomes something vastly more complicated. (Attempted murder early on will do that for you.) As will projected family issues, potential successor power play and jockeying for who-needs-whom-more positions. I wasn't completely happy with the writing of Ellen in the fourth season, but the third season was fantastic in this regard, and my s4 nitpicks notwithstanding, the Patty & Ellen dynamic, whether as allies or antagonists or both (especially both), whether they're screwing each other over or helping each other beat the system or both, is pretty much unique for female characters on current tv. A difficult conflict? You bet. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
4.) Toby Ziegler and Jed Bartlet (The West Wing). I still regard it as a personal failing that I'm unable to write the big epic post show story about these two I want to, but I did try to capture what fascinates me about this very, VERY conflicted relationship in this short vignette. What do I see as their core conflict? There's the big ethical dimension, to be sure (Toby appointing himself as conscience of not just the administration in general but Jed Bartlett in particular, the president not always living up to the man Toby wants him to be), but another aspect I see is that this is in its way a twisty take on the writer and muse story. And I love this about it.
5.) Londo Mollari and G'Kar (Babylon 5). In a way the reverse of the Magneto and Xavier dynamic in that they start out as enemies and end up as, well, that's incredibly difficult to summ up in brief, given entire manifestos get written about it. I was torn whether or not to include them because the original Narn and Centauri conflict that forms their background and to some degree them wasn't started by them. But their own decisions of how to deal with this and the other situations they find themselves in are so crucial that I decided they qualify anyway. Just as Londo would not have responded to any other Narn the way he did to G'Kar, the same is true for G'Kar and any other Centauri, both in their enmity and their later alliance-of-necessity-turned-friendship-turned-whatever-you-want-to-call-it. To give but one of many examples: take G'Kar's immediate reaction in a core s2 scene from The Coming of Shadows upon learning a certain spoilery plot point has just happened. Is it "those damned Centauri are at it again" or "I never should have trusted any Centauri!"? Nope. It's "he betrayed me!" The personal is political and the political is personal, indeed. And is the conflict between them a difficult one? Given that it forms the core arc of the arc show to end all arc shows, you might say so, yes. :)
This entry was originally posted at http://selenak.dreamwidth.org/749403.html. Comment there or here, as you wish.