Comments | selenak: Three Memoirs, Three Reviews

selenak

Three Memoirs, Three Reviews

Jul 14, 2011 19:03

More leftover from my Brückenau days: book reviews. One of the books in question I’d browsed through before but hadn’t read it properly, the other two were new to me. What the three have in common is, aren’t you surprised, a Beatles connection; otherwise they’re widely different, though each struggling with the opening sentence ofDavid ( Read more... )

harrison, pattie boyd, book review, warum spielst du, klaus voormann, horst fascher, wonderful tonight, beatles, let the good times roll

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larainefan July 23 2011, 14:01:37 UTC

I hope it's not too late to respond to this. Thank you so much for taking the trouble to quote (and in some cases, translate) all those passages! I agree someone should translate the German books into English, that would be a goldmine for someone. With all the interest in the Beatles, and considering how vital Hamburg was to them, I'm surprised publishers aren't taking advantage of the connections. I love reading Klaus' observations, and seeing his drawings. Someone on a George site quoted at length some beautiful observations about George from Klaus, after George's death ( ... )

larainefan July 23 2011, 14:18:26 UTC

Sorry, I got interrupted. Anyway ( ... )

selenak July 24 2011, 05:31:57 UTC

I hope it's not too late to respond to this.

Not at all!

I do read many accounts of George's infidelities. I've also read accounts of him trying very hard to please Pattie and remain faithful to her, while she was messing around with Ronnie Woods. It's indicated that George thought, "Well, if she wants an open marriage, she'll HAVE an open marriage..." and then began to pursue every female in sight, which sounds exactly like passive-aggressive George behaviour to me.Yes, but I don't think the Ronnie Wood affair predates George's own infidelities. If nothing else, he did the rockstar/groupie thing while on tour. I do believe that pre-India, he was careful not to let Pattie know about that. Another reason why I'm inclined to believe Pattie that she didn't cheat on George before he (openly) cheated on her is that, well, George wasn't faithfull to Olivia, either, and his marriage to Olivia was certainly strong, nor did Olivia flirt with anyone. But be that as it may, far more serious than the question as to who cheated on whom first is ( ... )

larainefan July 24 2011, 12:31:30 UTC

Thanks for the response, I'm always trying to deepen my understanding of George. I do agree with you that unfortunately George did cheat with groupies etc even before problems in the marriage, and yes, that was unfair. Like all the Beatles, and I guess most men of that time/locale, the rules apparently were thought to be different for men. I mean, it's not as if the Beatles minded women being promiscuous on tours, etc, indeed they even welcomed that. But completely different behaviour expected from women they thought they "owned", and yes I do think they thought they owned their wives and girlfriends, their behaviour bears that out. I do echo what one poster said above, about what the hell happened in India, lol ( ... )

selenak July 24 2011, 12:45:16 UTC

Like all the Beatles, and I guess most men of that time/locale, the rules apparently were thought to be different for menIndeed, and George was by no means untypical or over the top (looking at you, Mick Jaggers) for his day or profession, but that doesn't change the fact he did what he did ( ... )

larainefan July 24 2011, 12:48:03 UTC

My comment was too long, I had to break it up ( ... )

larainefan July 24 2011, 12:54:40 UTC

But I'm sure you'll enjoy reading Chris O'Dell's book, if you get a chance. The Carol Bedford is good, too, but hard to find, and expensive. Again, they don't refrain from writing the bad sides of George or any of the Beatles, but balance it with good things, too, which fleshes everyone out a bit ( ... )

ljlorettamartin July 31 2011, 20:52:02 UTC

[I've been thinking of posting some of the accounts of the book Beatles UK Tours 1963-1966, if anyone would be interested in reading them.]

I would!

larainefan August 3 2011, 00:29:36 UTC

Just now seeing this...I'll try and post some excerpts soon...interesting character sketches of all the boys, in the early days.

selenak July 24 2011, 13:05:05 UTC

Which leads me to believe George was a better friend to Eric, than Eric was to George.

Oh, definitely. You know, that part of the Let it Be sessions (not on film, but on tape) after George walked out where the director asks what they'll do if George doesn't come back, and John rather coldly says then they'll get Eric Clapton used to make me wonder whether Eric would have agreed, but by now I'm certain he would have, friendship be damned. (BTW, I always thought John's and Paul's reactions to the "what if George doesn't come back?" question were characteristic for them and how they saw the Beatles. John saw them as his gang and you can kick out members and adopt new ones. Whereas Paul in the above mentioned transcript shoots down the Eric Clapton idea at once and says no, they can't replace George, only the Beatles are the Beatles, because Paul may have been bossy to the nth degree but he saw the group as family, and you can't replace your younger brother ( ... )

larainefan July 24 2011, 13:24:35 UTC

Yes, I do remember the account of George saying to John "I did everything you wanted, everything you said..." Wow, see, that's one of the things of which I'm wondering the story behind! And when George got angry and grabbed John's glasses off his face, John didn't do a thing, he said George was entitled to his anger, and John understood it.

Have you read John wrote Dream Number 9 for George, as an apology for having not always been around for him? I've only read John wrote that for George in one place, when I was on Amazon scanning John bios for mentions of George.

Let It Be...when George walked out and John said "Let's get Clapton" I always hope he said that to save face, but was shocked and devastated on the inside. That's what I like to imagine, anyhow.

I look forward to the review you wrote of Keith's book, I'll check it out right now, thanks for the link! :)

selenak July 24 2011, 17:08:24 UTC

Never heard the Dream No.9 story, and who's to say what went on inside John? (Least of all John who changed his mind every two seconds.) Your interpretation is as plausible as any. Here is the audio of the conversation between John and Michael Lindsay-Hogg. Comes complete with Yoko, err, jamming. (I suppose the person playing Martha My Dear passive aggressively in the background is Paul. God, those sessions were crazy.)

larainefan July 24 2011, 18:55:59 UTC

Good God, whether one cares for Yoko's music or not, how could anyone think with all that going on, I could barely hear the background conversations! And to think, in addition to John/Yoko, all of them were going off in whatever directions they wanted, purely chaotic. It's a miracle they accomplished anything, but they did finally wind up with some great music ( ... )

Lengthy reply, part I (lj willing) selenak July 26 2011, 03:56:12 UTC

Good God, whether one cares for Yoko's music or not, how could anyone think with all that going on, I could barely hear the background conversations!

Quite. This is why I understand everyone in this situation. Were the other three sexist towards Yoko? Sure, but this would have tried the patience of the most equal-minded saint. (And they were far from saintly.)

Pattie as a London model would have been the perfect girlfriend for Beatle George, but would she have been the perfect girlfriend for working-class-origin George, which always lurked beneath the Beatle veneer. Again, the class differences.It's interesting that the Ringo/Maureen marriage is the only one a Beatle made (during the 60s) that wasn't "upwards". Even Cynthia was slightly - not much, but slightly - higher on the social scale than John was, and John was the most middle class Beatle anyway. And of course both Yoko and Linda came from very rich background, though I suppose the fact neither of them was English removed them from the class system; whereas Pattie and Jane ( ... )

Lengthy reply, part II selenak July 26 2011, 03:57:43 UTC

But if your (more or less) best friend meets this new cool guy who becomes his new best friend whereas you now are the other good (but no longer best) friend, and the younger one to boot, well, that's almost bound to create at least subconsciously some resentment, isn't it? And you don't blame the new cool guy because you think he's the coolest guy on the planet yourself. In fact, why is it that Mr. Cool treats your (only nine months older) friend as an equal and you as a kid? How is that fair? Maybe if you had met Mr. Cool first, it would have been you who made it to partner status instead of eternal kid status ( ... )

Lengthy reply, part III selenak July 26 2011, 03:58:59 UTC

John: There's no telling George. He always has a point of view about that wide, you know. [John places his hands a few inches apart.] You can't tell him anything.
Yoko: George is sophisticated, fashionwise. . . .
John: He's very trendy, and he has the right clothes, and all of that. . . .
Yoko: But he's not sophisticated, intellectually.
John: No. He's very narrow-minded and he doesn't really have a broader view. Paul is far more aware than George.

Triple ouch. Basically I think John regarded George as the ideal Trusted Lieutenant (not an equal), used him asa weapon against Paul in the divorce (hence his extremely weird court deposition in the law suit where he's supposed to give a statement about the horrible financial state of Apple and instead says how he and George understand "underground music" and Paul does not, which has nothing to do with any legalities and very obviously is an attempt to make Paul jealous), and was very irritated that ticked off as George was at Paul it didn't mean George liked stepmum Yoko one bit (see: ( ... )

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