Lost 6.16 What they died for

[selenak]

After last week's mythical grandeur, this was rather workman-like by comparison, basically moving everyone into place for the finale, but it had its moment nonetheless.

Comments

[astrogirl2]

Without those memories, he might have been touched by Alex' invitation and Danielle calling him the next thing Alex has to a father, but I doubt he'd have looked so broken and been dissolving into actual tears.

Yes, agreed. Oh, Ben. You poor Magnificent Bastard Psycho Woobie.

I still suspect the key to Smokey's defeat will be in moving Real!Locke from one timeline to the other

Oh, god, I hope so. I really, really, really hope so. Locke's arc as it stands is just too, too sad.

To wit, since that was debated last week, Smokey isn't a being who took the form of his dead brother, Smokey is his dead brother

I have to say, I never quite understood how the alternative viewpoint there made sense, anyway.

I thought "no, they keep calling him Locke, which irritates me because he's not Locke, and I really hope they stop with that for the finale at least".

Heh. Me, too. Although I suppose I can't really blame them. They have to call him something, and they have bigger things to worry about than what that name should be. It helps if I tell myself it's short for "that guy who's walking around looking like Locke."

[wee_warrior]

I have to say, I never quite understood how the alternative viewpoint there made sense, anyway.

It's because he left a body. If Smokey had risen from Esau's dead body or if there hadn't been a body, I would have found it unambiguous. This way it looks like throwing Esau into the light let something else free that took on parts of his personality. I have to admit that I still think that's what happened, even with Jacob saying he made him. If he had said Smokey was his brother once, it would have been clearer.

[astrogirl2]

That doesn't fit with the fact that apparently they can't kill each other, though, or the description of what happens in there as not death, but a fate worse than death. It just looks to me like ordinary sci-fi dualism, with the guy's mind/soul/whatever being ripped out of his body and transformed into something else.

[wee_warrior]

I guess I'm too used to it happening the other way round? Or I was unprepared for the very decisive duality of body and soul this proposes.

[astrogirl2]

Well, we already have ghosts and things, so I think Lost's stance on mind/body dualism is moderately clear. :)

[wee_warrior]

Yeah, that was kind of a weak argument... it is difficult for me to accept that there supposed to be two Esaus at that moment, one dead and one a puff of smoke. Jacob couldn't kill him, but whatever hit him down in the hole probably could have - it's like Smokey and the bomb in The Candidate. And having a great big smokey Whatever run around with parts of your personality isn't the greatest fate.

(I do know that you're probably right, and I'm not hugely attached to the idea, I simply feel like I'm reading a mystery where there is a corpse too many. *g*)

Oh, and why did the stykera cross the road? Because it could?

[astrogirl2]

I simply feel like I'm reading a mystery where there is a corpse too many.

Heh. Poor "Esau." Either way, leaving a dead body like that has to kind of suck. :)

Oh, and why did the stykera cross the road? Because it could?

To get to the Other Side. Or possibly to get it to the Other Side. Obscure Farscape jokes are fun! :)

[mymatedave]

Wow. Considering the last couple of episodes, that icon has never been more relevant. And Jacob really is as much a heartless bastard as Smokey, he just does his killing in a more removed fashion.

Reminds me a bit of the one accident survivor in the midst of dozens dead, and god allowed that one to survive. Pity about the others though, they weren't needed.

[astrogirl2]

This icon? Heh. Now that you mention it, it really has taken on a whole new meaning, hasn't it?

And I agree about Jacob. At least Smokey is honest (mostly) about what a bad guy he is. The heartless bastards who think they're morally justified are even worse. Maybe he does get some points, I guess, for trying to pick people whose lives already sucked, but that isn't anywhere near good enough.

[selenak]

Re: Ben: so, if he were to meet Sydney from Pretender (either Dr. Linus or Prime Ben), would they bond or would Sydney start to provide some much needed therapy?

Word on the sadness of Locke's arc as it stands, but real Locke isn't around in the Rebootverse for nothing, I'm sure of it.

Also, methinks Prime Ben asking Smokey why he walks around in Locke's body instead of being smoke all the time had more purpose than just adding confirmation to viewers this used to be Jacob's brother; Ben will probably end up Smokey's longing for the human physical against him.

[astrogirl2]

so, if he were to meet Sydney from Pretender (either Dr. Linus or Prime Ben), would they bond or would Sydney start to provide some much needed therapy?

I don't know for sure, but I want this crossover. :)

but real Locke isn't around in the Rebootverse for nothing, I'm sure of it.

True. Very true. I shall attempt to cling to that. :)

Ben will probably end up Smokey's longing for the human physical against him.

Hmm. You could very well be right there. And, aww. I actually kind of feel for Smokey, even though I am still not very happy about him walking around wearing Locke's face.

[selenak]

Same here, re: Smokey. If he does give up Locke's form and reverts to Titus Welliver's just before his complete demise, I'll feel even more for him, though they might want Terry O'Quinn to play the death scene. (Actually, I agree with wee_warrior that the main reason why poor Locke got killed to begin with, from a Doylist pov, was that they wanted one of their two top actors play the big antagonist role in the last season, and it couldn't be Michael Emerson because he'd done that in s3 already. Which doesn't help with my Watsonian feeling of "give Locke's stolen body and life back!") Across the Sea really was marvellously effective in counteracting lost brownie points of Sun's, Jin's, Sayid's and Frank's demise.

[astrogirl2]

I agree with [info]wee_warrior that the main reason why poor Locke got killed to begin with, from a Doylist pov

This is a good point, and it has to be said that O'Quinn has done a fantastic job with it. But, yeah, still...

[masqthephlsphr]

Reminds me of my reaction to Illyria in Season 5 of Angel. Great showcase for the actress, lousy end for the previous character she played.

[selenak]

ZOMG yes, Illyria, Fred and Amy Acker are a great parallel...