Comments | selenak: Loving the Alien: Star Trek, Babylon 5, and Farscape

selenak

Loving the Alien: Star Trek, Babylon 5, and Farscape

Dec 04, 2003 21:57

Several things on my friends list recent months, from the serious to the not so serious, made me rethink what TV (and some movies) offer us on alien sex loving the alien.

( Rambling on... )

ds9, farscape, alien, star trek, babylon 5

Comments 31

kernezelda December 4 2003, 13:02:27 UTC

Your posts almost always leave me in awe. While "wow, wow, wow," doesn't add anything to the conversation, it pretty much expresses my impression.

cavendish December 4 2003, 13:14:50 UTC

same with me ;-)

Thanks, oh Gangsta! selenak December 5 2003, 03:06:41 UTC

And I'll promise I read the poem, but for poetry I need more leisure, which is why I didn't comment before.

*blush* selenak December 4 2003, 22:31:36 UTC

Thank you!

lakrids404 December 4 2003, 15:21:35 UTC

most but not all of the TV shows (DS9 would be the exception) where we usually have a male human and a female alien. I would think that perhaps, it has something to do with, that most of the writers and directors are males. And the female gender is generally speaking the only intelligent creature, that we males share the world with. If one should belive books like “Womens are from Mars, Men are from Venus”, not that one really belive in these kind of books ( ... )

neuralclone December 4 2003, 17:02:33 UTC

I would think that perhaps, it has something to do with, that most of the writers and directors are males. And the female gender is generally speaking the only intelligent creature, that we males share the world with. If one should belive books like "Womens are from Mars, Men are from Venus", not that one really belive in these kind of books.

I wonder if there is not a more ... well sinister isn't quite the right word ... "subconscious" reason for it as well? Traditionally culturally dominant males have seen it as their right to "play with" the women of other races and cultures, but "their" own women are reserved strictly for themselves. You don't have look very far back in history to find a world where it was OK for white men to have sex with black women - provided they didn't marry them! - or amuse themselves with "exotic" Asian "geishas" or prostitutes, but where white women weren't supposed to cross the colour line. And "coloured" men who did were depicted as either bestial black rapists or sinister oriental white slavers ( ... )

ide_cyan December 6 2003, 18:51:58 UTC

Amanda moved to Vulcan, didn't she? "Qui prend mari prend pays", ou planète, selon le cas... Women who marry are still often expected to be subsumed in their husband's identity. Women who subsume their husbands are seen as monstruous. Disruptive of the "natural" order.

Nicola Griffith has an interesting essay about aliens, and another on women and otherness in the English language, which touches on science-fiction too.

Joanna Russ is another obvious name to cite, but her works are not online.

lakrids404 December 7 2003, 11:30:01 UTC

Interesting essays. In Danish the word for mankind is menneskehed meaning literally humankind. I am far from an expert in any language, but when I compare with other languages I know (English and German), does it feel to me more gender neutral. A man would only include a male gender person, and the language in Danish does not have to like the germane language declare what gender a noun is.

In Denmark, is the best know alien prince Henrik a former Frenchman. Whom a couple of years ago in interview said more or less, that he was rather feed up, with that he following the royal etiquette, should he. for example walk two step behind the queen. The interview came out for the public like man could not really accept, that his wife, was more important than himself. Something that every stand up comedian used as a subject for over a year. You could perhaps say, that prince Henrik ,, has not subsumed his identity (French), into his wife identity. And he is not liked for it, equality?.

Thread 7

neuralclone December 4 2003, 16:22:36 UTC

I agree with Butterfly 100%! For the show that has tended towards the unexpected and the unconventional, J/A is far too ... normal. Easy. For all the angst, it's guy meets (human looking) gal, falls in love, makes babies. It is probably why I find the Scorpius/Harvey/John connection more interesting - it's not necessarily sexual but - and? - it's extremely hard to pin down and categorise.

But you've left out one of the pairings in Farscape - Stark and Zhaan. Semi-incorporeal being with sentient plant.

Scorpius, btw, was originally projected as "an evil Mr Spock". In other words, the parallels are quite deliberate - another twisting of the Star Trek universe by Farscape.

Stark/Zhaan, of course! selenak December 4 2003, 22:43:17 UTC

astrogirl2 probably will never speak to me again for forgetting them. Yes. Definitely transgressing all sorts of species bounders.

What I did leave out deliberately, because I don't know how to define it, either: Pilot and Moya.

Re: Stark/Zhaan, of course! astrogirl2 December 6 2003, 07:20:56 UTC

Hee! That's OK. For writing such a well thought-out and thought-provoking post, I'll forgive you. :)

Actually, one of the (many) things about Stark and Zhaan that does interest me is the fact that they're so very alien, not just to us, but to each other. In fact, they're probably the most mutually alien couple we see on any show, except for Kira and Odo. (Well, OK, maybe Zefram Cochrane and that cloud creature in TOS, but that relationship wasn't going anywhere until she got a human body, so I don't think it counts. :)) And Odo was deliberately minimizing the physical differences between himself and Kira, at least for a big chunk of their relationship. Btw, I was highly shocked and utterly disappointed in Kira when I realized that she, uh, wasn't taking advantage of her unique opportunities. I remember yelling at the screen, "You mean, you haven't been...? Girl, are you crazyAnyway... There's a lot of other, rather tangential, thoughts you've stirred up in me, mostly about alien sexuality and interspecies relationships ( ( ... )

Re: Stark/Zhaan, of course! selenak December 6 2003, 08:39:59 UTC

Thanks for the absolution.*g* And let's hope Kira took every advantage after Chimera. Incidentally, I think if it had been Dax (Jadzia), she'd probably have suggested it to Odo from the start. Always more open to other cultures, was our Jadzia. (Not to mention more adventerous in such matters.)

I'm looking forward to your follow-up post.

Thread 5

Troi, Scorpius, etc alara_r December 4 2003, 16:48:46 UTC

To be fair, Troi was *half*-alien. And unlike *every* other hybrid on the series, not only is she fully comfortable with both sides of her heritage and well-acquainted with the traditions and customs of both, but she *also* doesn't seem to have major angst about her "disability" vis-a-vis one of her origin species (she's not a full telepath and she DOESN'T CARE.) Given this, it was of course hard to pull off making her convincingly alien, and there were major missteps made (the fact that Barclay's "Goddess of Empathy" thing pissed her off, for instance; a fully telepathic species would have had to learn to find things like that funny instead of offensive), but I think what she has to offer the viewer, in terms of the alien loving meme, is the most positive message Trek has. Most loving of aliens ends up producing children that don't know what the hell they are and are deeply conflicted over it. From the obvious ones like Spock and B'Elanna Torres to the less obvious ones like Amanda Rogers (who was born in human form because her Q ( ... )

Re: Troi, Scorpius, etc lakrids404 December 4 2003, 17:40:41 UTC

It’s kind strange how easy it is, for two species, in a sf. Tv show, to create hybrids. When the evolutionary process, is probably fundamentally different, for the two species. I can accept, for the sake of the story, that two aliens can love each other. But why could they not, just adopt a child?. A lot couples that loves each other, and cannot get a child on their own do that.
Larry Niven has written a rather funny easy, about one of the aliens that walk amongst us. Namely Clark Kent, and it’s about his libido and other problems. http://www.rawbw.com/~svw/superman.html

Re: Troi, Scorpius, etc selenak December 4 2003, 23:22:05 UTC

Thanks for the link! I wonder whether any of the Smallville crowd has read this...?

Re: Troi, Scorpius, etc ide_cyan December 6 2003, 18:31:37 UTC

I read it ages ago...

Thread 9

Great, inspiring essay :-) bimo December 5 2003, 02:26:26 UTC

Losts of thanks for writing this one. I especially enjoyed the comments about DS9.

"Given that DS9 is also the show where instead of the Bajorans joining the Federation, the Starfleet Captain basically becomes Bajoran [...]" is an interesting observation. As far as Farscape is concerned, I'm currently reading Kixxa's wonderful 'The Devil You Know', where I stumbled across the following passage. I fear, however, the quote is quite a bit out of its original context *g*

---------
Thanks for the compliment." Rygel settles himself more comfortably, his arm entwining around John's own."So?" he asks innocently. "What do you suggest we do next?"

"I don't know. We've got a frelled Scarran weapon, a coupla lenghts of bandage, some peacekeaper restraints, and some dubious creams and lotions. "What do you suggest we do?"

A huge grin breaks out on Rygel's face. "Something naughty?"
-------

Re: Great, inspiring essay :-) selenak December 5 2003, 02:35:55 UTC

Thanks! And kixxa so fulfilled my OTP dreams with that story.*g*

And Sisko does, even excluding his final transformation. Rewatching the show made me aware of his journey from Starfleet officer to Emissary in a way I had not yet been because the first time around, I had my mind fixed on certain Cardassians, Ferengi and Doctors...