Shadow of the Templar discussion post

[secretsolitaire]

In the interest of not cluttering up my flaily OMG the final Shadow of the Templar book is up!!! post with spoilers, I decided I'd start a new thread to discuss the final book (and anything else related to the series). I know there are a few of you out there who haven't finished yet, but feel free to drop by and join the discussion as soon as you

Comments

[tsukikoushi]

Simon is bisexual, yes, and actually tends to prefer women, although there are some things that are just easier with men, in his opinion. Simon figured out that he was attracted to hot people of any gender when he was in high school--hooray for the weight room--and he's always been enough of a self-confident bastard to go 'eh, I'm awesome, so that's awesome' and accept that about himself without much of a stumble. It's part of why he doesn't really read as 'gay'.

He doesn't really have 'relationships', no. His job keeps him so damned busy that up until the advent of Jeremy, his sex life consisted of realizing that he hadn't gotten laid in six weeks, realizing that he had a rare evening free, and going to a singles bar of some kind to pick up a no-frills one-night-stand. Ratio of hetero- to homo- was approximately even, based entirely on momentary whim, with the gay bars ever so slightly winning out just because the 'no frills' thing was easier there and pregnancy scares suck (and also he was less likely to run into someone he knew).

The thing with Sandra was essentially a one-time mutual explosion of adrenalin that unfortunately took unfair advantage of Sandra's lengthy infatuation with Simon. More than that I'm not going to say, as there's a short story that involves the actual incident.

(Technically Jeremy is also bisexual, although he tends to prefer men.)

[secretsolitaire]

*nod nod* That definitely fits with my vision of Simon.

Sorry, one more follow-up question -- well, two. 1. What was Jeremy's sex life like before he met Simon? Fairly similar, ie one night stands whenever the opportunity arose? Had he ever had any relationships?

And: 2. Now that Simon and Jeremy have their arrangement of sorts, do they still sleep with other people? (And is that issue something they would ever talk about in any universe? :-D)

[tsukikoushi]

1. Fairly similar, yes--artful one-time pickups--although generally even less often. (Jeremy is just as insane about his job as Simon is about his, after all.) Jeremy's choice of pickup venues tends to be less bar-oriented as well, although he is Eurotrash enough to enjoy the occasional club scene.

To potentially open an entire can of worms: Jeremy has only had two 'relationships' in his life. (Quotes used advisedly.) Simon is the second, and is likely to be the last; Bran was the first. When Jeremy describes their relationship as 'complicated', he is not kidding.

2. They'll never discuss it, most likely, but they do stop sleeping with other people almost immediately. Technically they stopped sleeping with other people after the very first time they slept together, but it's monogamy by omission rather than commission, if you follow me. Less 'OH I AM MONOGAMOUS WITH YOU NOW' and more 'GOSH I'D JUST BEEN THINKING ABOUT GOING OUT AND GETTING LAID AND THERE YOU WERE AGAIN'.

Jeremy turns up on Simon's doorstep every couple of months, they pack the next three or four days full of sex, and then Jeremy wanders off again, urges temporarily sated. It's so convenient and easy for both of them and their insane schedules--I suspect that Simon would compare it to calling out for pizza delivery, since he's kind of an asshole--that it immediately replaces the other, earlier habits. Why bother spending all that time and money to pick up an unknown quality as a sexual partner (who could have any number of diseases or psychoses) when they both know that terrific sex is pretty much always just around the corner/always just a plane trip away?

Jeremy and Simon's relationships

[gaycrow]

They'll never discuss it, most likely, but they do stop sleeping with other people almost immediately. Technically they stopped sleeping with other people after the very first time they slept together, but it's monogamy by omission rather than commission

The romantic fangirl (old woman in my case) in me really likes this, even though it's monogamy by omission. I'm warm and fuzzy about Simon and Jeremy anyway, and this adds to the fuzziness, as does Simon is the second, and is likely to be the last.

Bran was the first. When Jeremy describes their relationship as 'complicated', he is not kidding.

Aha! My eyes widened when I read this. My thoughts were that Bran was just a "brother" to Jeremy, although I had my suspicions. It does open a new can of worms. (I'm thinking Jeremy is more than a bit of a masochist when it comes to relationship partners. ;D)

Re: Jeremy and Simon's relationships

[tsukikoushi]

Jeremy never actually comes out and says as much, but if you read between the lines in Double Down, it's there, and Simon figures it out eventually. The idea is introduced towards the end of chapter ten, when Jeremy and Simon have dinner at the steakhouse, and Simon 'gets' it in the middle of chapter twenty-one, when they're killing time during the Annadale stakeout.

That's why Jeremy telling Bran that he loved him during the scene in the cathedral hits Simon like a punch in the gut, because Simon knows what Jeremy is saying--and why the 'blow me' thing in High Fidelity upsets Simon so very much.

And yea, there's a certain touch of the masochist in it, definitely, although less actually enjoying emotional pain and more having a fairly bottomless capacity for putting up with it. Something like that.

Re: Jeremy and Simon's relationships

[gaycrow]

The idea is introduced towards the end of chapter ten, when Jeremy and Simon have dinner at the steakhouse ...

*nods* So when Jeremy says "Yes" he's really answering ALL of Simon's questions, rather than just the one. Is he your rival, your brother, your ex-boyfriend?

Simon's absorbed interest in Jeremy's fairy-tale during the stakeout, and his reactions during the cathedral scene and in "High Fidelity" are telling. The fact that he is so affected confirms that his feelings towards Jeremy are stronger than he's admitting.

[secretsolitaire]

he is Eurotrash enough to enjoy the occasional club scene.

This thought gives me great pleasure, for some reason. I'm picturing him slinking into a club in tight black leather pants. Yum. :-P

Technically they stopped sleeping with other people after the very first time they slept together, but it's monogamy by omission rather than commission, if you follow me. Less 'OH I AM MONOGAMOUS WITH YOU NOW' and more 'GOSH I'D JUST BEEN THINKING ABOUT GOING OUT AND GETTING LAID AND THERE YOU WERE AGAIN'.

Makes sense to me!

Do you think you might ever write anything about Jeremy and Bran's "relationship"? I'd be interested to read about all the complicated emotions there. I picked up on the "more than brothers" thing when Jeremy says he loved him at the end of Double Down, but I had sort of pictured it as less of a "relationship" and more of an unrequited thing on Jeremy's part.

[tsukikoushi]

I plan to write about it, yes, although it's a little ways down the list. It is so complicated a mess that it really does need explication.

[purplevks]

YES!

[gaycrow]

... although there are some things that are just easier with men ...

Yes, I can definitely see Simon being like that, and the bar scene thingy, too.

I love these little background fillers about the team and Jeremy. It opens up a whole new world of imagining for me.

[supergreak]

So! I was reading through this insanely huge discussion post, and realized you still haven't written the Simon/Sandra short story "that involves the actual incident". Are you planning to, someday? You know these short stories feed us:)

[tsukikoushi]

I am! In fact, a large chunk of the story in question has already been written--that story hasn't been finished yet mostly because it promises to be very, very long and I keep getting distracted by the need to write other things. I do still work on it in fits and starts, though, so it's getting there. If slowly.

[supergreak]

YAY! *is excited*
I'll shut up now so you can write more.

And also, wow, that was fast.

[secretsolitaire]

I am tickled to see that this insane post is still being enjoyed! :-D

[lilian_cho]

Yes, it def. is!

*comes in late, bearing chocolate cookies and milk*

*scrolls down*

[secretsolitaire]

Haha, hello and welcome! *snags a cookie and pulls up a chair for you*