Seriously. TV. Show. Not life or death.
(warning: I use the F word. Don't read if that bothers you.)
Guys, guys. Take a chill pill. It's a TV show. Rob Thomas is not the devil incarnate. It's highly unlikely that he deliberately wants to destroy everything you once loved about the show. And I seriously doubt he hates Logan. Seriously. Doubt. It. If he wanted to sabotage the ( Read more... )
Guys, guys. Take a chill pill. It's a TV show. Rob Thomas is not the devil incarnate. It's highly unlikely that he deliberately wants to destroy everything you once loved about the show. And I seriously doubt he hates Logan. Seriously. Doubt. It. If he wanted to sabotage the ( Read more... )
And I seriously doubt he hates Logan. Seriously. Doubt. It. You probably already know how I feel about this. It isn't that I think (or have ever thought) that he hates Logan. But I do think that as a writer, he feels trapped by the characters and situations he's created (especially L/V). I still believe that the Madison storyline happened because he desperately wanted to open up the show, to move away from L/V, to find ground he was excited about writing rather than a relationship that feels more and more claustrophobic (to him as a writer, I mean). His FBI proposal also strikes me as a manifestation of this boredom and dissatisfaction as a writer--that's the story he's suggested he's wanted to tell for awhile, not Nancy Drew the college years, so it makes sense he's throwing it out there ( ... )
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Hee. Can that be my new username? I love it!
I agree wholeheartedly with you that the FBI idea is his way of trying to rekindle his excitement. It totally reads that way to me. And there's much about this season that in retrospect absolutely reeks of writer boredom. (And there you have my thoughts on the switch in formats in a nutshell. :) ) But I'm still not sure how he feels about Logan/Veronica in the long run. I can read things at least two ways. More on that in the FBI post, but in essence, I feel an overwhelming need to know whether RT is planning to ask JD onto the FBI show. I don't care if it gets greenlit or not, I just want to know if that's his plan! I lust for that bit of information. It shapes my reaction to his choices THIS season. I want to know, dammit!
In truth, I'm okay that people are rabid about stories and fiction. I believe in that, for lots of reasons.
As a writer, I'm delighted that this is the case. I want people to invest ( ... )
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If RT was planning on asking JD, wouldn't he have put JD in the mini-trailer he shot for the network? Or leaked that he was hoping to bring both of them forward? He knows how popular JD and Logan are. (I also wonder if the network will try and make him keep JD, no matter what he wants, if they greenlight the format shift.)
I think RT has some serious subconscious issues around women and power and sexuality, but I would bet real money that he has no idea that he has said issues.
My snarky answer to this is that his therapist must have told him (back when he was having all those sexual jealousy issues), but that he didn't believe her. :) Otherwise, I see what you mean. I guess whether his misogyny is conscious or subconscious doesn't make much difference to me these days, since it's so clearly shaping the text in the way you've described.
God help JK Rowling if she kills Harry. That fandom will probably draw and quarter her and then cut out ( ... )
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I agree. Mostly because nothing else makes sense to me. But...the way that RT made that happen... I suppose the most I can rationally accuse him of is going about it in an incompetent way. But the juxtaposition between the way he wrote L/V for the last two years and the way the story is heading now feels like the whole thing was deliberate manipulation of the fans to keep them watching, only to do a bait and switch with the ending he wanted all along. I know secrets_and_lie is right. That seems like an insane interpretation of a showrunner's motives. But I guess it's easier for me to take all that frustration and find a reason to vent it somewhere than to just accept it for what it is and move on. I, like most of the fans around me, have invested too much emotion in the story RT was ( ... )
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I agree, but maybe the lack of closure is because of the nature of the new story he wants to tell? (Yes, I'm thinking he may well be planting seeds for L/V in the FBI chapter of V's life...)
It's like finding a really great chapter fanfic that gets left off at the messiest point and is then never finished. A showrunner, I feel, shouldn't get to leave loose ends in that way, and I resent that he can.That's a fantastic analogy. Unfortunately, due to the nature of TV scheduling, shows can just end abruptly. You can argue that he should have seen the writing on the wall and planned to wrap things up properly at the end of this season, but I think he did that last season and it backfired and created a severe lack of inherent drama at the beginning of this ( ... )
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It's interesting. When that happens, I usually blame the network for yanking the show without giving it a chance for closure. But the fact that he might get a chance to keep telling his story without properly wrapping up the existing scenario really rubs me the wrong way.
You can argue that he should have seen the writing on the wall and planned to wrap things up properly at the end of this season, but I think he did that last season and it backfired and created a severe lack of inherent drama at the beginning of this season. Which he's fixed now but in such a hamfisted way he's alienated a large chunk of his fanbase.Yes. It's more a matter of incompetence than anything else. But his lack of foresight at the end of S2 doesn't make me forgive his blundering now. He wouldn't be damned if he were just...a better showrunner. I don't have that much compassion for him after the angst this show has caused me. I guess I reserve my right to be angry about his ( ... )
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Also? He finally managed to break my shipper heart. I didn't think it was possibe. This couple has come so far from what I envisioned, from every positive outcome I could imagine, any future scenario I might have wanted... I would rather see Logan dead, in jail, even staying with Parker, than with Veronica in that future. This latest news? I am done in.
Could that change when the anger subsides? Sure. But if he leaves them where I think he'll leave them, I don't see my enthusiasm going anywhere but down. Not whetting the appetite. Destroying it.
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I think this is probably at the heart of my bitterness too (which I definitely feel, and maybe am downplaying today because of the sanity issue). I know RT has no contract with me. No contract to tell a good story, much less a story that satisfies me personally. But I *feel* like he does. Like he should. And I hate that ultimately he doesn't at all.
I know it's irrational. Just like I know there are smart, interesting things to be thought and said about what our reactions mean in terms relations between authors and readers (expected and actual). But I don't have them in me right now. Because I really wanted that good story and that good (even if not necessarily totally happy) ending for Logan and Veronica. I really really wanted it. The show (the first season, and even some of the second) made me want it. And now it's not going to happen. It's bitterness, but it's grief too, I think.
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I still am vaguely afraid he's going to kill Logan. And like you, I won't ever forgive, or get over it, if he does that.
"But if RT is doing what I think he's doing, we won't see that this season. If this season is The End, that leaves us in a dreadful place."
And I guess I will just try to write my way out of it then. Or you know, read your ending and adopt it as my own personal canon. It's hard for me to even imagine watching the last five episodes at this point, though. Definitely, definitely grief.
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WORD. I think "resentment" is the exact right word for how I'm feeling right now, too.
I think this is probably at the heart of my bitterness too (which I definitely feel, and maybe am downplaying today because of the sanity issue). I know RT has no contract with me. No contract to tell a good story, much less a story that satisfies me personally. But I *feel* like he does. Like he should. And I hate that ultimately he doesn't at all.
Honestly, while I agree that I'm aware he has no contract with us as viewers... I think the reason it feels like does is because... whether he likes it or not, he's in the entertainment business. I understand that it's his story to tell and no one else's, but if he wants people to continue to watch? He's pretty much obligated to entertain them on some level, or they just won't anymore. So the bit of resentment on his part I feel like we're starting to see unfold? Feels hugely out of place to me, personally ( ... )
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There you go again! Coupled with Tamar, you two always end up articulating writing problems with this show better than anyone, I think. So thanks for that, as always.
I ended up friending grave_watchers, but not joining, mainly because... on a juvenile level, I have to admit it amuses me. But I've always had a pretty odd sense of humor, and I honestly think it helps (for me, anyway) deal with the anger and disappointment if I have all this stuff to amuse me, even when I find myself agreeing with much of it.
It does strike me as a little crazy to think that Rob actually hates Logan as a character, but I've been ( ... )
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