On The Law of the Land

[seanorange]

Parts of the PATRIOT Act were declered unconstitutional (finally!), specifically one dealing with recent "legal" updates to the FISA court which allows the Executive branch to perform searches without (or prior to) a court instruction -- which flies in the face of the 4th amendment protecting against unreasonable search and seizures

Comments

[thewyteryno]

You know, I've always joked that it might be kinda sweet to be convicted of a crime I didn't commit, spend a few years in a minimum-security prison until proof comes out that I'm innocent, and I get a few million from the state as compensation. Set for life!

Well I am apparently an idiot; not because of the fundamentals of my plan, but the duration. All I need is to has the feds ruffle through my underwear drawer and spend two weeks in a cell. Then I get 2-freakin-million dollars. I'm actually a little sickened by that. $2,000,000 for what I classify as an inconvenience, worthy of employment wage compensation plus some form of interest, and a public apology

[seanorange]

I think (I hope) the point is that the protections guaranteed by the bill of rights would keep such mistakes from getting as far as they had. Maybe a court review would have been a rubber stamp and not done much good. Maybe the time it took to go through the process someone would have uncovered the mistake. The point is that when we rush to conclusions, innocent people get fucked. Fortunately it was only two weeks and a messy house, but then people are being let out of prison all the time on DNA evidence after 20 years... the system is hardly perfect.

I've heard it before, but I still don't understand it -- I thought the ideal was that the bill of rights applied to all people, not just US Citizens. Granted, under our laws we are under no obligation to treat foreigners under our laws, but isn't that why the Geneva conventions were developed? And we all know how Gonzales felt about thatSpeaking of Gonzales, Bush wanted his replacement to be confirmed within two weeks of his being named -- which was less time that it took for him

[thewyteryno]

Well, there could be a "rush" factor considered in how this man's case was mishandled relating to the Patriot Act. But even still, I think the amount he received is sick. I know $2 mil isn't what it was even 10 years ago, but it's still silly amounts of money for your average Joe. Two weeks and a messy house? Seriously?

And if even the print story is bogus, the fact is it's the official story and that will be what they relate to in the contesting of the Patriot Act. Know what I mean? Don't cry foul because of Element A(P Act), when it's Element B(print mistake) that was the real issue. What this sounds like is more related to Fruit of the Poisonous Tree; the search was unconstitutional and thus the print evidence is. And that's fine, but they seem to be really stretching here

[seanorange]

Ah, I see what you're saying about the immigration thing. We kind of detain people indefinitely (or for a long time) for border jumping already anyway, so would it make much difference to try them? Hahahaha.

Naw, deportation of non-citizens seems harmless enough. I'm more concerned with allegations of criminal (to heinous) misconduct, say, terrorism, when we lock up people on little more evidence than the word of a foreign government for which said people are little more than a political inconvenience. And the best part? We PAY them to do it.

$2 million doesn't seem like much in the face of that, but then again doesn't suing the government just hurt everyone?

~Sean

[thewyteryno]

Indeed.

I am for detaining non-citizens (on our soil) without the need for probable cause. However, they mustn't be kept for ridiculous periods without advancement in proof or evidence. We can't treat non-citizens like non-humans. And it's dubious at best to detain someone based on the word of a government that we're on strenuous terms with, or whose intelligence is severely lacking.