So here's the thing

[sdwolfpup]

I understand that the whole Buffy/Spike sex scene in "Smashed" is problematic. I GET THAT. But I feel like if it wasn't supposed to be at least SOMEWHAT appealing, they might've used TOTALLY DIFFERENT music. Because that little bit in 'Smashed' is still one of my favorite pieces of music on the show (and replicates really well the same sound of

Comments

[fenchurche]

Well, I do remember that back when it first aired, everyone seemed to see it as being a good thing (including the Spike-haters out there... who absolute fumed after the episode aired, until "Wrecked" hit the airwaves), because it really was presented that way... as epic and sweeping. So, yeah.

[sdwolfpup]

Yes! It seems so epic when it happens! Like wow, here is the culmination of several seasons' worth of character and relationship development! How awesome is that?!

[amnisias]

If it's any consolation, I totally refuse to let fandom, or political correctness, dictate what I like or who I ship. That relationship resonated very strongly with me precisely for the reason that it wasn't unproblematic and unambigious. My experience is that life is messy, and people are screwed up. That scene was so raw, and passionate, and totally wrong and still made total sense. There is no reason to be ashamed about liking the Spuffy!

[sdwolfpup]

That scene is really a great scene. They are both so clearly having A Moment, I can't feel badly about appreciating that.

[pezgirl7]

I love Spike/Buffy, and the end of Smashed. The way I see it is: it's a freaking TV show about vampires! :) Why take it so seriously? I mean, it had serious story lines at times, and meant a lot to people, but it's still just entertainment, so I just try to take it as that.

[sdwolfpup]

I think there's some value in taking our entertainment seriously, since it often says so much about us as a culture. But I still think that scene is valuable as it stands. And hot. *g*

[brynnmck]

I haven't read any BtVS meta in a looooooong time, so I don't know what people say about this now, but. In retrospect, I can see how the writers could have been setting up the destructive potential of their relationship. But even so, I still agree with you that the way it was shot and presented definitely made it seem like a romantic moment, for certain Buffy/Spike values of romance. (Re: the Bush song: is that the "are you drowning or waving?" one, where they're on opposite sides of the crypt door? NGGGGGH SO HOT.) I still feel like if we were never supposed to really be on board with that relationship, something went SERIOUSLY AWRY with the writing or direction or something, because I was really on board with it for a large swath of the time, such that "Seeing Red" felt (and feels) so far OOC for me that I honestly don't include it in my head canon. IDK. I haven't re-watched BtVS in years and years, so my perspective now might be different, but there always seemed to me to be a really weird disparity between how the writers

[zabira]

*cosigns*

YES. it was like the writers didn't even UNDERSTAND what they had, which seemed to be a functional, real relationship between people who GOT each other and actually COMMUNICATED sometimes, miracle of miracles.

[sdwolfpup]

*nodnodnod* Often they were the MOST FUNCTIONAL of all the BtVS relationships!

[sdwolfpup]

Yeah, my BTVS meta days are long over; mostly I stumble upon it now (occasionally I go to TWOP to remind myself of things in the recaps and those people HAAAAAATED Spike/Buffy o.m.g).

YES that is the Bush song. NGGGGGGGH INDEED.

a really weird disparity between how the writers ultimately told us to look at the Spike/Buffy relationship and how they often presented it onscreen

YES. Yes, this is it exactly. What was onscreen legitimately had a solid foundation of friendship and trust, and what they told us was supposed to be happening was often something very different, especially at the beginning. Why build the relationship on such solid foundations pre-OMWF if you're just going to go 180 degrees the other way after that? It was weird.

[darlulu]

It's got a dark romanticism to it that is really kind of apt for what's going on there.

Definitely. And yeah, their acting/chemistry was pitch perfect in that scene. The end of Smashed ranks as one of the most passionate, charged, grab-me-by-the-heart sex scenes of all time for me. I lovelovelove that moment where they pause mid-clinch because it makes it crystal clear that it's a choice they're making to continue.

I still ship Spuffy, too. I guess I just wish the events of Seeing Red had never happened. I also was pretty disappointed with Buffy's 'I love you' in the series finale, but if I put those two bits out of my mind, I was actually a generally satisfied shipper. What's funny is that I think I loved their dynamic best over the stretch of S7 because they were finally close friends who trusted and needed each other and I sort of adored that aspect to their relationship.

And I hate feeling like I should be ashamed of liking their relationship because of all the many thousands of pages of meta that have been written about

[sdwolfpup]

I lovelovelove that moment where they pause mid-clinch because it makes it crystal clear that it's a choice they're making to continue

YES. See, that is it exactly. It starts out as this weird hate-fighting-sex thing but then mid-clinch they stop and the music swells and the LOOK at each other and it is REALLY REALLY BEAUTIFUL and you get the feeling that something is HAPPENING here. And then the show is like "no, this is clearly a Bad Thing" and I just go bzuh?

I love their S7 dynamic. I think their quiet friendship is one of my favorite flavors of Spuffy, TBH.

And yeah, Spike seems to get an inordinate amount of shit talked about him.