Suikoden Tierkreis, Part 9

[lady_nighteyes]

Uh... who, me? Almost not getting this update done in time because I was too busy writing sappy Radiant Historia fanfic? I, uh... have no idea what you're talking about, you must be thinking of someone else. >_> Anyway! Cynas, philosophical ranting, and logical curlicues in this week's episode of "Let's Play Suikoden Tierkreis!"

Comments

[anonymous]

Despite all this nonsense, I still can't hate the Order. Why? Because all of the ridiculous logical flaws in their beliefs and actions aren't their fault - they're the game's writers' fault. I recognise that there is a very fine line between the Order being evil because they're stupid and the Order being evil because the writers are stupid, but when every application of their beliefs that we are shown would result in the Order both logically and practically collapsing in on themselves whenever anything happens, and yet it's still going strong, then we're looking at a case of bad writing. Their existence and status in-universe are impossible according to the way they're presented. This whole section feels like an in-universe hatchet job, a piece of propaganda distributed by the Order's enemies. Yeah, I really remember why this game's writing annoyed me... fortunately I think it gets more lively later on, when it starts steering clear of the philosophy that it can't handle.

[lady_nighteyes]

I would be much happier with this part of the game if all they'd kept was the scenes in the next section. Because in my opinion, they mostly work, whereas this is just silly in its levels of Stupid Evil. And I feel it'd work even better if it was coming straight after the more ambiguous villainy in Grayridge, so it's sort of like, "Well, these people are sort of weird, but I guess it's not our place to jud- wait what." [Spoiler (click to open)]And then immediately after that, the Order attacks Citro and tries to blame it on the heroes, even though, as Jale promptly points out, the troop movements started even before Conon and Fergus got back. So you still get to see them being corrupt, hypocritical liars, but in a more believable context.My revised version would have them get to Cynas and let you wander around briefly (so you can still abuse the trade system/talk to NPCs standing around), stumble across Darrow and Savina in an alley (with their problem having been changed to the Order interfering in a less direct way, such as by permanently stationing them at

[anonymous]

Your revisions all make sense, and I think illuminate what's a redeeming factor of the game: The fundamental ideas are all good, or at least workable. The ideas are poorly-written sometimes, but they aren't poor ideas. And they deserved better than cartoon villainy which it's very hard indeed to take seriously. In fact, when you mention creepiness - that's an important point. We could've had a few run-ins with the Order, gotten the impression that "hmm, something's not right with this weird cult," they seem over-zealous, we gradually learn that they're actually kind of running a militaristic empire. There's foreshadowing and tension and build-up. Instead, we walk straight into "mwahahahaha!" territory. But it didn't have to be that way. ...Perhaps it's ironic that, for a game about changing fate, there is absolutely nothing we can do about any of this.

[lady_nighteyes]

That's why I enjoy it in spite of the not-so-great voice acting, terrible balance, and complete lack of subtlety. The environments are gorgeous (as are most of the character portraits), it has some decent ideas, I love some of the characters, and I just find it fun (admittedly, "terrible balance" actually adds to that). But yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking of- the plot just generally would be a lot better if the game ever accepted that the player doesn't need "these people are bad" pounded into their head. Even if the ambiguity goes away later, it's nice to start with some.

And, well, sure, of course we can't change it, but it's still interesting to talk about.

[zarla]

NOTHING ABOUT THE ORDER MAKES ANY SENSE

[lady_nighteyes]

Inorite? Like I was telling Anti-Preaching Anon above, the game would be vastly improved by just cutting most of this section, because it's full of plot holes you could drive a truck through.

[beldarius]

If there's one reason why I hate the Order, it's because the people who believe in it seem to be idiots who can't think for themselves. ...I've always had a similar opinion of fundamentalists in the real world; they're simply so gullible they believe everything they're told. (Then again, I may be biased in this regard since I'm a humanist instead of religious.)

I think the world would collapse into a black hole at the sheer amount of smugness if there was more than one of Sneer.
Super Robot Wars actually has a Sneer who throws black holes at people to kill them. ...So consider yourself outdone, Conon...