036. the mother we share
December 18th: What draws you to incest ships for streussal
ahahahahahahahahahahaha
streussal, why do you do this to me
I honestly don't know how to explain this but I am going to TRY to explain.
( incest manifesto (pray for me) )
ahahahahahahahahahahaha
streussal, why do you do this to me
I honestly don't know how to explain this but I am going to TRY to explain.
( incest manifesto (pray for me) )
(sometimes I just wail really loudly and go ALL MY SHIPS ARE THE SAAAAAME)
lol ikr
Same about cross-gen incest. Partly it might be that I don’t have siblings, but I DO have parents…….
Same again about age-difference. I can’t see Katniss/Prim or Buffy/Dawn AT ALL, and I feel like it’d veer into potential abuse because of the caretaker dynamic.
Tbh, if I am trying very hard to be honest with myself, I feel like those are romantic tropes that I used to like as a kid, but grew out of, but still liked, but couldn't deal with them because they were so clearly terrible, so I transferred that to incest shit.
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bless you
And yeah, the romanticisation of “there is no world for me without you” with canon het ships squicks the fuck out of me, mainly because it usually involves the female character’s narrative being subsumed into The Relationship. But with ostensibly platonic dynamics? THAT'S WHAT I'M ABOUT.
lol, I remember you bitching about Elena/Jeremy fic. For srs, they were raised as brother and sister, so. And idg thinking “they’re JUST cousins so it’s OKAY”, as though fucking your cousin is a “take or leave” thing, lmao.
Like stories where people found out they're actually related even though they were not raised together and met each other as friends then a romantic partner first, and they freak out about how TERRIBLE IT IS AND HOW CAN I LIVE LIKE THIS.
THE WORST. My go-to example is The Mortal Instruments tbh (and then it turned out THEY WEREN’T SIBLINGS AFTER ALL, which was even worse, lol).
Or a way of saying THESE PEOPLE ARE SO EVIL AND DECADENT SO OF COURSE THEY HAVE ~UNNATURAL DESIRES~ and playing on the whole, slightly normalized royal incest thing.
LMFAO, I never considered this but you’re not wrong. There was… some of that with Cesare/Lucrezia? But the way they developed after they Did It also pretty much summed up how incest taints a once functional thing. I was stoked with their arc overall. WATCH SEASON THREE, FOOL.
KLAUS/REBEKAH IS STILL MY EVERYTHING. I’M SAD THEY HAVEN’T DESTROYED YOUR LIFE THE WAY THEY HAVE MINE.
Helena/Sarah is Orphan Black’s one true romance lbr.
I’m less of discerning taste about my incest! For me the ~above society~ ships like Cersei/Jaime work for me just as well as something like Richie/Seth (though you can argue Richie and Seth are also ~outside of society~ given they’re criminals and also Richie’s now a creature of the night). Mainly it’s the codependence that’s key for me.
BUT I HAVE INDEED ENJOYED YOUR INCEST RAMBLE. Carry on with your bad self.
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OKAY BUT LISTEN.
In the second trilogy the ACTUAL REAL-FACTS BROTHER comes back and is EVIL and keeps the three of them locked together in this really weird incest-siblings-being-evil apartment. And it's amazing. The way TMI ends is with Sebastian giving his sister a hell-realm to rule over as his queen. And basically says: "and we'll keep our brother here for you to fuck because I know you care about that" and lord how I wrong!ship that so hard. The actual worst thing about TMI is that it *didn't* end with Sebastian and Clary ruling in Hell with Jace as their sassy pool boy. (Why can't we have nice things?)
Like I know that they all meet 'late in life' and the incest-y parts of it aren't the same as 'we were raised from childhood together' - but Sebastian is very clear that Jace and Clary are his siblings and that he was raised loving/hating them as siblings.
*gasps*
I have a lot of Sebastian/Clary(/Jace) feelings, okay?
This is possibly the most embarrassing comment I have ever written.
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This is possibly the most embarrassing comment I have ever written.
Shhhhh, you're home here~~~~
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The way TMI ends is with Sebastian giving his sister a hell-realm to rule over as his queen. And basically says: "and we'll keep our brother here for you to fuck because I know you care about that" and lord how I wrong!ship that so hard.
....like. this is my shit. my shit. GIVING YOUR SISTER A HELL REALM!! From my understanding, Clary and Sebastian are siblings and Jace was the fake-out!sibling but is related to Sebastian too, since he calls him his brother (or refers to Jace as their brother), or is that just an affectionate term? But oh jeez.
The actual worst thing about TMI is that it *didn't* end with Sebastian and Clary ruling in Hell with Jace as their sassy pool boy. (Why can't we have nice things?)
Someone should write this fic. I'll read it, I don't even go here.
Like I know that they all meet 'late in life' and the incest-y parts of it aren't the same as 'we were raised from childhood together' - but Sebastian is very clear that Jace and Clary are his siblings and that he was raised loving/hating them as siblings.
LOL, LIKE. Well in general, I do think "meeting late in life incest" isn't really that bad, if like, people meet, form a relationship and then find out their relationship (there actual documented cases of this happening! Of people refusing to get married or breaking up because they found out they were long last half-siblings or something! And I just want to tell them, IT'S OKAY IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL) but I THINK IF YOU KNOW THOSE PEOPLE ARE YOUR SIBLINGS BEFORE YOU MEET THEM AND YOU WANT TO PERUSE SOME KIND OF RELATIONSHIP ANYWAY, THAT'S A LITTLE MESSED UP AND THAT'S A-OKAY WITH ME. THAT COUNTS.
This is possibly the most embarrassing comment I have ever written.
Any drive-by comment to alert me of incest is well at home, tbh. Carry on.
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From my understanding, Clary and Sebastian are siblings and Jace was the fake-out!sibling but is related to Sebastian too, since he calls him his brother (or refers to Jace as their brother), or is that just an affectionate term? But oh jeez.
Okay - here's how it works.
The Dad (the Voldy if you will) was trying to create a "master race" of people basically. SO he made his wife drink demon blood while she was pregnant with Sebastian and then she gave birth to a half-demon monster. After that, he did experiments with an ANGEL HE KEPT LOCKED IN HIS PERSONAL DUNGEON (omg this canon) and the same Angel's blood runs through Jace and Clary's veins.
Daddy dear raised Sebastian and was very clear on JACE IS MY FAVORITE CHILD AND YOU ARE A MONSTER LOL, DON'T YOU LOVE YOUR BROTHER ISN'T HE AWESOME? And they all thought Clary was dead so when she popped up out of nowhere everything was like WELL GUESS I HAVE A SISTER.
So the DAD refers to them all as 'his children' even though technically only Sebastian and Clary are biologically related.
But Jace and Clary are like ~meant to be together because of their shared Angel blood stuff?
IT'S RIDICULOUS.
But in Sebastian's mind and in the dad's mind, Jace, Clary, and Sebastian are all siblings. And the dad thinks it's a hilarious joke that Jace and Clary fall in love. He really loves trolling them about it.
GIVING YOUR SISTER A HELL REALM!!
My absolute favorite part is that he has Jace and their mom in chains as the birthday cake.
SISTER LET'S FUCK IN A HELL REALM AND YOU CAN BE MY QUEEN - LOOK I EVEN BROUGHT YOUR FAVORITE PEOPLE! LOVE ME!? PLEASE LOVE ME!?
It's so amazing.
Also the parts where he has Jace under mind control and they keep Clary in this creepy apartment and make her wear her mom's old clothes.
FUCKING GOLD.
Like... this is the only incest ship that I feel was ever done CORRECTLY because every single part of it is so seriously fucked up there's no going back no matter what.
Someone should write this fic. I'll read it, I don't even go here.
IF YOU'LL READ IT I'LL WRITE IT. No one else that I've dragged into this with me followed me into the Sebastian/Clary life.
But Rosa did wrangle incest-AU Jace/Clary fic out of me and I have been dying to write more. untitled
Thanks for letting me yell at you!
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I'M SORRY BUT AFTER THIS RAMBLE, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S SOME TRASHY FUN LIT AND I WANT TO READ IT EVEN MORE. LIKE AN ANGEL HE KEPT LOCKED UP IN HIS DUNGEON? I FEEL LIKE THIS WAS WRITTEN WHILE HIGH.
So the DAD refers to them all as 'his children' even though technically only Sebastian and Clary are biologically related.
But Jace and Clary are like ~meant to be together because of their shared Angel blood stuff?
IT'S RIDICULOUS.
But in Sebastian's mind and in the dad's mind, Jace, Clary, and Sebastian are all siblings. And the dad thinks it's a hilarious joke that Jace and Clary fall in love. He really loves trolling them about it.
LOL OH I GET IT. So they're not technically related because they don't share parents but they share the same BLOOD I suppose they are ~blood brothers and sister~ welp I am here for that, that's close enough.
My absolute favorite part is that he has Jace and their mom in chains as the birthday cake.
SISTER LET'S FUCK IN A HELL REALM AND YOU CAN BE MY QUEEN - LOOK I EVEN BROUGHT YOUR FAVORITE PEOPLE! LOVE ME!? PLEASE LOVE ME!?
I CANNOT BELIEEEEEVE. THIS IS GOLD TBH. THIS DUDE'S MINDSET AND WHAT HE THINKS IS A GOOD PRESENT
IF YOU'LL READ IT I'LL WRITE IT. No one else that I've dragged into this with me followed me into the Sebastian/Clary life.
Those ppl are weak and will not survive the winter. BUT OH OH THAT FIC I WILL CHECK THAT OUT YES *__*
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THE WORST. My go-to example is The Mortal Instruments tbh (and then it turned out THEY WEREN’T SIBLINGS AFTER ALL, which was even worse, lol).
Oh my god, you have saved me so much time, because literally the only reason that I was interested in the mortal instruments was that I heard there was an incest ship, and wow, wow, wow, wow. Way to not go where you're saying you're going to go.
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THE WORST. My go-to example is The Mortal Instruments tbh (and then it turned out THEY WEREN’T SIBLINGS AFTER ALL, which was even worse, lol).
Oh my god, you have saved me so much time, because literally the only reason that I was interested in the mortal instruments was that I heard there was an incest ship, and wow, wow, wow, wow. Way to not go where you're saying you're going to go.
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Same about cross-gen incest. Partly it might be that I don’t have siblings, but I DO have parents…….
Lol. Sometimes I worry/wonder if my comfort with incest shipping is because I don't have any siblings to begin with, so I lack a personal connection and don't get squicked out and therefore, cannot ~properly understand~ it? but it's not like I don't know incest shippers who DO have siblings so I don't think that theory holds water.
Exactly tho, when someone is explicitly a sibling's caretaker, it skews the dynamic in such messy ways if I try to add incest it makes it almost too uncomfortable for me to deal with. I may still ship it (Dean did see himself as taking care of a baby Sam so that was an element of that ship), but it's....super uncomfortable.
And yeah, the romanticisation of “there is no world for me without you” with canon het ships squicks the fuck out of me, mainly because it usually involves the female character’s narrative being subsumed into The Relationship. But with ostensibly platonic dynamics? THAT'S WHAT I'M ABOUT.
oh man this. The whole "I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT YOU THING" squicks me out sooo much now when it's a het ship, either coming from a dude (elevating a woman on a pedestal as the only reason worth living, which has grown to make me mega uncomfortable) or the woman in the ship (therefore showing she only values her romantnic relationship with a man, which is sad?) or both. I know there's like het non-incest ships like this I like and the whole point is that it's messed up, so it's not necessarily a bad trope all the time, but so many times it's portrayed as utterly healthy and I KNOW I've seen a lot of incarnations where that was shown to be the IDEAL ROMANCE TM that now I am just "no, enough" over it. When it's in dynamics that shouldn't be romantic, aren't romantic (but are sexual in another way) or platonic from the get go, I find it MUCH MORE interesting and less like...pushing some default heterosexual agenda. #that was a rant
lol, I remember you bitching about Elena/Jeremy fic. For srs, they were raised as brother and sister, so. And idg thinking “they’re JUST cousins so it’s OKAY”, as though fucking your cousin is a “take or leave” thing, lmao.
DID I BITCH ABOUT THIS ALREADY OH GOD I'M A BROKEN RECORD. I mean, as far as cousincest go, it's legal to marry your cousin in a bunch of states in the US. So maybe that's why a lot of people think "cousin" is not as strong of a relationship and therefore, not a big deal and a lot safer than siblingcest? I know i don't feel that strongly about cousincest (like, it doesn't hit me in my incest feels unless there's some other factors strengthening the bond) because I am not close at all to my cousins and don't really see that relationship as that significant, unless, like, said fictional cousins were raised together or have some other factor drawing them together.
THE WORST. My go-to example is The Mortal Instruments tbh (and then it turned out THEY WEREN’T SIBLINGS AFTER ALL, which was even worse, lol).
LOL OMG IS THIS THE CLARY/JACE THING? I've only ever watched the film but I read they're supposed to have an incest freak out or something and then it turns out THEY'RE NOT RELATED AT ALL. WHICH IS REALLY TOO BAD, BECAUSE I WAS ONLY INTERESTED IN THAT SHIP FOR THE INCEST, OTHERWISE JACE'S FACE DETERS ME.
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The whole "I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT YOU THING" squicks me out sooo much now when it's a het ship, either coming from a dude (elevating a woman on a pedestal as the only reason worth living, which has grown to make me mega uncomfortable) or the woman in the ship (therefore showing she only values her romantnic relationship with a man, which is sad?)
Where are the lies. Death to the romanticisation of Relationship Is Identity. I'm about toxic destructive love lbr (lol, obviously) but... the more time I spend in fandom the more violently opposed to right!shipping I become tbh. WHOOPS?
I mean, as far as cousincest go, it's legal to marry your cousin in a bunch of states in the US.
lol, things I forget about the U.S. There's really not much more to say.
It is indeed Clary/Jace, but as Kelsey has made a manifesto-ed, apparently there are other draws to the series, so.
OTHERWISE JACE'S FACE DETERS ME.
omfg
I forever have no opinions on Hollywood heartthrobs, but hilar annoucement.
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Yeah I actually don't get codependent vibes from Cesare/Lucrezia? THEY'RE VERY INCESTUOUS, MAN, there's no denying that, but I feel like they can live without each other fairly well. They spend a lot of time apart and they have their own lives outside of each other, they just...are very touchy and want each other, apparently. I WILL WATCH EVENTUALLY! I have no idea what's stopping me, it's not like I don't want to watch, I just, I also haven't watched S2-3 of Luther even though I'm looking forward to it. Instead I'm watching Sons of Anarchy, because I suddenly have a crime show itch. Wut @ me.
For me the ~above society~ ships like Cersei/Jaime work for me just as well as something like Richie/Seth (though you can argue Richie and Seth are also ~outside of society~ given they’re criminals and also Richie’s now a creature of the night). Mainly it’s the codependence that’s key for me.
Ooh I do like Cersei/Jaime a lot. Like tbh the examples I listed as aristocratic incest are still stuff I SHIP, it's but as strong because I feel like there's a built in excuse for the writers and the audience (also I get tired of mega privileged rich ppl sometimes). Jaime/Cersei has more than enough codependence to make up for it, though, even if their arcs are about redefinition and finding their own place. There are other examples where the whole royal aristocrat incest doesn't work for me at all, but generally I don't remember which ships I don't like if it's been a while and they don't affect me that much (I guess Targaryen incest would fall under 'royal incest that doesn't appeal to me that much. I DO LIKE DANY/VISERYS THOUGH BECAUSE I'M FUCKED UP but those are much different vibes than regular codependent shit).
Oh, Seth/Richie are definitely OUTSIDE SOCIETY types, no argument there, like, when I write them, I tend to think they're amoral enough so incest wouldn't feel like a huge deal to them, given their status as outlaw bank robbers? but I think there's a big difference, for me, when it comes to "above society" and "outside society." I think both types of ships come from a like, "we're not like regular people" mindset but instead of being elevated above society, Seth/Richie comes from being outcasted from it (not rejected by it, exactly, but deliberately set outside of it)--by abuse that legit no one was going to come rescue them from, Richie had to save them both, by the fact that they're both sons of a criminal and have been training for that harshly under Ray (so I think they were sorta of...doomed by what they were born into in the first place; not that I'm excusing them being criminals, like, I never wanna do because it's so important to me they chose to do this and are proud of their criminal exploits, but I think there's a cycle of crime when it comes to the Gecko family) and I am not sure if it's ever clearly stated but I definitely feel they are working class and were poor given that Seth didn't even have a proper bed), so with them + incest, I feel like it's more like...feeling no obligation to owe the world anything, and being excluded and isolated from it, so incest is kind of a feasible evolution of that? I hope that made sense, idk, I HOPE THIS DIDN'T COME OFF ARGUMENTATIVE, I JUST LIKE TALKING ABOUT SETH/RICHIE /o\
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DANY/VISERYS IS MY SHIT, HIGH FIVE. (WE ARE GOING TO THE SPECIAL HELL.)
How many times must I say TALK TO ME ABOUT GECKO BROTHERS ALL THE TIME. I nod my head at everything. Especially about them not owing the world anything and never having much of a chance to be ~part of it~ anyway, so it could be no other way. Except now Richie's chosen Santanico and it's no longer Geckos VS. The World, so who knows where they go from here.
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