Comments | scorpiod1: 035. it's a silly time to learn to swim when you start to drown (or tragic otps are my jam)

scorpiod1

035. it's a silly time to learn to swim when you start to drown (or tragic otps are my jam)

Dec 18, 2014 01:13

December 17th: Jean/Scott feelings for rosaxx50Heh, I feel awkward talking about this because I'm worried I'm going to say something wrong. I have a lot of feels but it's been awhile since I've watched the X-men trilogy (I've been meaning to do a marathon but mostly I've seen Days of Future Past and First Class most recently. And weirdly the second ( Read more... )

films: x-men, december talking meme

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rosaxx50 December 18 2014, 09:58:04 UTC

dramatic ugly sobbing

(I will be back to comment properly when it's not so late I can't keep my eyes open)

But just off-hand, though Logan->Jean was pretty central to the films, I never got the sense that it was ~the otp~ so much as that it was really emphasis on Logan's feelings for Jean deriving from his status as the central character. Like, I cannot overstate how much Jean/Scott is ~The OTP~ in almost any X-Men franchise from issue one of the comics to any adaptation since, up to circa 2003.

Also lol @ Jean/Logan shippers, I don't think I've met one myself. Ever.

scorpiod1 December 18 2014, 13:27:08 UTC

I APPRECIATE THE UGLY SOBBING, BRO. Glad you enjoyed the post :3 ( ... )

PART ONE rosaxx50 December 18 2014, 21:25:29 UTC

I always feel like I'm wading into conversations I don't understand entirely and should keep my mouth shut. Like my general opinion is that I feel films and comics should be considered separate, stand alone verses, rather than an extension of one another but still, I feel like I'm missing a lot of material.

I do get you on this. With the films, I think this is a particular point because Scott and Jean just aren't as fleshed out as they are in the comics (though Jean actually has rather different characterization than in the comics), so film characterisation usually gets dragged in. Plus, Scott's backstory in the comics makes his presentation in the films more... nuanced. HOWEVER, the films definitely stand on their own, and the references to comics are easter eggs for fans more than anything else.

I feel like Jean/Scott isn't really appreciated because it's not a very flashy pair? They're internally stable, for the most part, they're already together as of the first movie; I can see why some people wouldn't care about them as much. ( ... )

RE: PART ONE scorpiod1 December 21 2014, 02:11:41 UTC

I am going to TRY to respond to this. Try xD Let's see how well I do:

oh man I agree with this point, I'm sure the films don't have Scott/Jean as fleshed out as they could be--there's only so much time, like, a few hours of film (6-7 maybe, if you're counting just the first three movies) versus decades of comics and several seasons of a tv show, and since the films focused on Logan so much, I imagine a bunch of substance was lost in the wayside? (Also most film incarnations of most superheroes aren't that fully fleshed out as they were in the comics; though I mainly know this via Dc comics because that's the comics I'm familiar with) Like...I guess I can make a lot with a little because I generally gravitated towards underdeveloped ships or rareships and like to fill in the blanks.

I was always fond of film!Scott. Partly because everyone said he was boring and it made me pout. He flipped Wolverine off, he's cool! Even if I'm missing lots of depth, sadly.

THROWS SELF INTO THE SUN BECAUSE OF JEAN AND SCOTT AND HOLDING BACK HIS LASER ( ... )

PART TWO (comics!) rosaxx50 December 18 2014, 22:21:10 UTC

My feelings on Jean/Scott is that I love them in the movieverse, but not nearly as much as I adore them in X-Men: Evolution (FOREVER FORMATIVE) or in the comics (JUST AS FORMATIVE). I know that I would ship Jean/Scott even without the films b/c teammates and partners and she fights against a possessed version of him!!! plus established childhood sweethearts otp. But I wouldn't like them quite as much if I hadn't been, like, wired to ship them from childhood.

Like in the 2nd Wolverine movie he's having hallucinations of Jean Grey and meaningful dreams about her sharing a bed with him and stuff, and I am just BRO!!! CHILL!

To be fair, there is actually precedent for this in the comics (though largely in Chris Claremont's comics where Jean is 'the love of his life' lol), and that's more to do with the extent of Jean's powers and the wider scope of power in the comics - the list of people who've had hallucinations/meaningful dreams of Jean include Scott, Storm, Emma Frost, and other comics characters.

please overstate it as much as you ( ... )

RE: PART TWO (comics!) scorpiod1 December 21 2014, 02:21:00 UTC

Oh so for you, it was show/comics first, then film? I've always been the opposite with everything. I've been wanting to read the comics but like....comics are so hard to get into, I already went through this with DC, I have no clue where to even start with Marvel sob

To be fair, there is actually precedent for this in the comics (though largely in Chris Claremont's comics where Jean is 'the love of his life' lol), and that's more to do with the extent of Jean's powers and the wider scope of power in the comics - the list of people who've had hallucinations/meaningful dreams of Jean include Scott, Storm, Emma Frost, and other comics characters....that's actually really cool? Like, Jean being so powerful that even after death, people keep dreaming and seeing her because somehow her energy just lingers? THAT'S REALLY COOL. Shame it wasn't the case in the Wolverine films; I'd take that over Wolverine's manpain and feeling guilty for sleeping with someone else ( ... )

i can't believe there's a part 3 but there is rosaxx50 December 18 2014, 22:21:55 UTC

ANYWAY. The above is later retconned to something taking over Jean's body and doing the destroying, but that's less relevant to Scott/Jean. In the comics, Scott grieves, but eventually moves on with wife #1 (Madelyne Prior, who looks creepily like Jean actually), and has a son with her, and retires from the X-Men. In the 1980s, the executive team decide they want another comics series with the original X-Men team, which means bringing Jean back to life... and they decide to have Scott leave Madelyne (in the sense that he's going to see Jean now that she's live, not in the sense that he divorces her). Jean and Scott eventually get back together again, then. There's a great deal of craziness involving Madelyne and clones and future body-swapping, but Jean and Scott get married in the 1990s - Jean proposes! And they stay an established Thing up until the 2000s, when Jean gets killed off again, and Scott moves on with Emma Frost (who is their age in the comics). Scott/Emma has been the thing since then, but Jean/Scott was just... the otp ( ... )

RE: i can't believe there's a part 3 but there is scorpiod1 December 21 2014, 02:24:29 UTC

AAAH I HEARD ABOUT MADELYN PRIOR. I heard Scott/Madelyn went very badly? I was on tumblr reading about X-men and a bunch of people I was tumblr stalking for info hated Scott for whatever went down with that (I could never figure out and lol I wasn't gonna ask because I am shy). Overstated in what way? Like, in my experience, comics tends to do WHICHEVER CHARACTERIZATION YOU FEEL LIKE and pick and choose your own canon. i knew Scott/Emma was currently canon (which seems interesting? to me? but i barely know anything about Emma) as of the moment. lol grant morrison tho, HE WOULD DO THAT "BE A DICK TO BE COOL" SHIT. I have such a complicated relationship with him regarding comics, I've liked some stuff and HATED others welp.

Those wedding vows, man *___* Jean proposing is everything I ever wanted. (LOGAN DRAMATICALLY BROODING AWAY FROM THE WEDDING IS HONESTLY HILARIOUS TBH)

Visionary teammate partners whose love can save or doom the universe - but who are still able to move on from each other - otp.Aaah gorgeous *__* Thank you for the ( ... )

Re: i can't believe there's a part 3 but there is rosaxx50 December 21 2014, 03:38:31 UTC

believe it or not have a two-part comment again

Also most film incarnations of most superheroes aren't that fully fleshed out as they were in the comics; though I mainly know this via Dc comics because that's the comics I'm familiar with

I agree it's a time constraint, but I'm also a bit :/ at the characterisation in the films. Comics!Scott is an orphan with massive issues with the foster system and marked delinquency. And I lol @ the people who find him incredibly boring and straight-laced because lol c'mon, when you break that many laws and own that many motorcycles, and has as much dry wit as X1!Scott, that's the opposite of boring. Jean is... I've said so on tumblr before, but if you can't imagine Jean blowing a hole through the wall and flying off because of righteous indignation that her team has abandoned the mutant-human-alliance goals, that's not the Jean I grew up with. But the films aren't terrible with them, especially X1, i.e. the most balanced of the films, and X2 to an extent.

but I love it so much when a lady is ( ... )

Re: i can't believe there's a part 3 but there is rosaxx50 December 21 2014, 03:39:56 UTC

AAAH I HEARD ABOUT MADELYN PRIOR. I heard Scott/Madelyn went very badly? I was on tumblr reading about X-men and a bunch of people I was tumblr stalking for info hated Scott for whatever went down with that (I could never figure out and lol I wasn't gonna ask because I am shy). Overstated in what way?Okay, so I only read the issues once a couple of years ago, and only selected issues too - my memory's quite dodgy. But basically, Scott has retired from the X-Men and is living with Maddy and Nathaniel (their son), sometimes returning to help the team with big events. He gets a call from the Fantastic Four (lol) that Jean's alive, and heads off to see her. Madelyne confronts him before he leaves, telling him he's always going off with his teammates and hasn't spent enough time helping her with Nathaniel, and gives him an ultimatum - that if he leaves this time he shouldn't expect her to wait for him. Scott leaves, though weirdly without telling Madelyne that he's going because Jean's alive, or that Jean is alive at all ( ... )

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