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A friend I have been discussing religion and philosophy, and in the course of it the idea came up that Christianity is a demanding religion, and who would want to worship and devote themselves to a god who is always telling us what to do
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I like the analogy that you used. Z sounds like a good teacher.
For me, it was different: it was a teacher that took me on not because he recognized my talents and abilities and wanted me to do more. He took me on because he wanted as many followers students as possible, so there could be more to make examples of, and more people talking about how great he is. He was demanding and demeaning and disguised it as things like "encouragement" and "grace." Check my pride at the door? I had no choice. His ego and his pride filled the room building world. It was ALL about him.
I didn't like the way I was being treated. But, as it turns out, there's other teachers out there.
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I'm really thinking that we're actually talking about two different people here. This god you're talking about is an egotistical, manipulative bastard, and that can't be my god, because I don't put up with egotistical, manipulative bastards.
I mean, if you want someone who's swallowed the "Christian line" hook, line and sinker, that's me. I go to a church with "Evangelical" in the name, I went to a small conservative Bible college for six years, I pray and study the Bible regularly, I'm hugely interested in theology, and I claim to know my God personally. I've devoted my whole life to him.
Which leads to an uncomfortable question. Honestly speaking (and I wouldn't be offended by any answer you give me), do you think I behave like someone in a manipulative, emotionally abusive relationship?
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I haven't been very close to you since high school so I don't think I can answer that question. I can only speak for myself, so that is what I will do.
I googled "how to tell if your relationship is abusive" and came up with this site. While it is addressing earthly, romantic relationships with a human being, most of it does still apply. I will use it as a template.
Do you feel that you can't discuss with your partner what is bothering you? Maybe I could discuss it, but it would do no good. He was still God, you see, which means that he was always right. I was wrong, and it usually had something to do with sin or my sinful nature and I needed to pray for God's wisdom.
Does your partner frequently criticize you, humiliate you, or undermine your self-esteem? See the discussion we've been having.
Does your partner ridicule you for expressing yourself? No, not at all! As long as what I'm ( ... )
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I know we're no longer close, but my whole LJ is here for you to read. Yeah, that's not the entirety of my life, but the real business of my brain is here. The theological and philosophical stuff I post here: that's how I think.
I don't know how far you want to get into theology and philosophy, or how much of what you relate here is your perspective, Trinity's perspective, or some total gestalt of your life among Christians. All of it I've heard before somewhere, with varying degrees of belief of skepticism - even within the Church.
You're right: the total effect of what you experienced is an abusive relationship. Some of these things I agree with you about with no reservation: not making friends with unbelievers? Seriously? And I've ranted on my LJ before about Christians and ignorance and how God gave us brains for a reason.
In fact, if you want, I can take some of that stuff point-by-point, with Bible verses and the whole shebang. Do you mind?
(AARDVARK!)
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To be honest sometimes I think about this discussion and I feel bad, because I'm totally attacking these beliefs that you've held dear and used to identify yourself for your entire life, and it feels like a personal attack. I really don't like to do that to people.
It's also uncomfortable because the more I talk about it, the more I realize that particular relationship has really negatively affected my life and the way I relate to and communicate with people. But it's also a healthy, healing thing, because it's named one of the things I really need to work on getting over.
. . .how much of what you relate here is your perspective, Trinity's perspective, or some total gestalt of your life among Christians. Yes. All of it's my own perspective, which has probably been greatly influenced by the other two.
Um. I think that's all I have to say today.
BISCUIT!!
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So! Point by point:
As long as what I'm expressing is my love for him. Actually, this one wasn't a huge deal, but the list of things that fell under the category of both "self-expression" and "not honoring God" was ridiculous at times, and as we know, it's about honoring God 100% of the time with our entire lives.You had a list? I've heard of churches that had actual lists. I know this isn't one of the major points, but I still want to weigh in. Going back to creation, God declared the entire universe "good." Solomon also wrote at great length about how everyday life, work, leisure, and pleasure were gifts from God and just by enjoying them, we honored him. Paul wrote in Philippians: "whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is ( ... )
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Maybe I could discuss it, but it would do no good. He was still God, you see, which means that he was always right. I was wrong, and it usually had something to do with sin or my sinful nature and I needed to pray for God's wisdom.
Do you mean, if you were upset about something, it was wrong for you to be upset? The Psalmists and the prophets were frequently upset at things, even at God, and I don't recall that ever being called a sin. Paul talked several times about the anguish of a Christian, and never condemned it. All the negative emotions are valid, even good, according to Scripture, and frustration and arguments - even with God - all part of living in a broken world.
Because if I leave, I'm going to hell. 'Nuff said.I left this for last because this is one of the oldest debates in Christianity. Intelligent, godly, thoughtful people stand on both sides of it, but I, personally, believe that if a person has at any point in their life trusted God for eternal salvation, they cannot lose that gift. Which means that I ( ... )
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1. The brainwasher keeps the victim unaware of what is going on and what changes are taking place. Your partner might control your finances, make plans for you, or not tell you what his plans are until the last minute. He may talk about you to others behind your back, to isolate you from them. I heard a lot of "God has a plan for your life!" but I never heard what that plan IS. Or how about how when something happens, God has a reason for it... but he did keep me in the dark most of the time.
2. The brainwasher controls the victim's time and physical environment, and works to suppress much of the victim's old behavior. The victim is slowly, or abruptly, isolated from all supportive persons except the brainwasher. Your partner might have insisted that you stop certain social, hobby, or work activities. You ( ... )
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