Who-ishness

[scarlettgirl]

I've been pounding away trying to get my WoM thoughts together and I've come to the conclusion that RTD is either far luckier or far more brilliant than I've given him credit for. Tying so many strings together and reaching so far back in his own mythos is pretty impressive. I sometimes forget in my annoyance of overblown spectacle and dodgy

Comments

[elisi]

yet he stayed because he was curious.
As far as I recall he stayed because Adeliade wouldn't let him leave (he just walked in from out of nowhere!) and took his spacesuit off him. ETA (from the transcript):

Doctor: Yeah, I’m sorry. Um, I - I’d love to help, but [he takes his suit from Steffi] I’m leaving. Right now.
Adelaide: Take his space suit. Lock it up [as Steffi does so, to Doctor] This started as soon as you arrived so you’re not going anywhere except with me.

It's only once they realise that they have to leave, that she lets him go. ("Now get to your ship. I’m saving my people, you save yourself. I know what this moment is - it’s the moment we escape. Now get out!")

If they'd allowed him to leave immediately (as he wanted!), it would all have gone very differently...

So, basically, he's not as morally bankrupt as you think! :)

[selenak]

What she said. He did try to leave, repeatedly.

[scarlettgirl]

I don't think he tried all *that* hard after the initial encounter. Once he was drawn into the events he became "action as usual" and he made token attempts. When he did have the chance to leave - once he'd begun to develop a relationship with Adelaide and the others - he chose to stay, to follow Adelaide from the medical ward, even knowing that he couldn't/wouldn't do anything to change the final outcome. I think there is a part of him that wants to know what happens and, perhaps a part that wants to punish himself by watching. Either way, it was more disturbing to me than the outcome.

[elisi]

Hmm. I think we'll have to disagree. Yes he's fascinated by Adelaide (I wrote about it here), but although he lends a hand, he continually distances himself from the action - like he almost gets caught up, and then pulls back. The conflict that obviously plays out inside him is heartbreaking, rather than disturbing. (For me at least.)

[scarlettgirl]

I could see that interpretation, and would agree with it, if there wasn't moments in which he reacted in typical "we're on an adventure!" fashion. His delight in the greenhouse, chatting about Christmas, joking about bikes - he knew and yet... yeah.

Ah well, thank goodness for layered sci-fi! There's something for everyone. ;)

[elisi]

Is it any worse than Pompeii?

Anyway, then I think this is just the Doctor being himself - he is a *Master* at pretending that everything is fine. (Look at the scene where Martha leaves, and he's all 'Let's pretend that we didn't just spend a year in hell!' - or abandoning Jack) - it is his nature to get caught up in the moment, to be excited about things.

And also... this is how he sees *everything*. Everyone dies (I'm reminded of Reinette here), while he goes on. (And this is where we end up with Marble House...)

ETA: Expanding on this - I think it's significant that he tells Adelaide: "I loved you for that." - past tense. In his eyes she's already dead. It's like Rose wanting to see her father... they're only shadows that can't be touched. I can see why you find it morbid, I just find it desperately sad.

(And now my icon don't fit the mood of the comment at all. Nevermind, it's too awesome to change. *g*)

[rarelylynne]

ICON LOVE

[elisi]

*grins proudly*

Exceedingly snaggable, just credit kathyh (whom I roped into making it for me)!

And my, it goes well with yours... *clears throat*

[rarelylynne]

Courtesy of neadods. She gave it away very kindly.

[elisi]

Thank you muchly. :)

(And playing icon snap is entirely too much fun!)

[scarlettgirl]

Man - that is an awesome icon!!

It is sad and I see the significance of the "I loved you for that" but, it just struck such a jarring note that it made me realize, way before he changed events, that he was broken, that the reserves were gone and his idea of where to draw the line was blurry at best. Yes, in many ways it was typical Doctor behavior but there was nothing so significant as a kidnapped companion keeping him there.

Then again, Pompeii didn't have the same sense of reality as Mars did. It was almost like he was playing in a story (whereas for Donna, it felt more real). Perhaps that is why this time it came off as more horrifying.

[elisi]

Man - that is an awesome icon!!
And it's CANON! *is still full of glee*

Then again, Pompeii didn't have the same sense of reality as Mars did.
I think this is partly because to *us* Pompeii is history.

ANYWAY, I've been thinking about the not-leaving issue.

1. No companion. If he'd had someone with him, he'd have been desperate to keep him/her safe and run off asap.

2. He's pretty suicidal. He *knows* that death is coming, just not how. Maybe Mars is it?

3. Adelaide. This is (obviously) his one chance to get to know her, and he fanboys her liek whoa! (It's like Reinette all over again, and remember what he did for *her*!)

4. Pompeii. What if this is the same deal? In Pompeii he discovered that he was the catalyst - what if that's the case again? (Adelaide even makes a point of things getting weird the second her turns up.) In which case leaving is the one thing he *shouldn't* do...

Must run!

[scarlettgirl]

I think you're right about the companion issue. Not only was the companion a huge motivator for "getting the hell out" but also the Jimminy Cricket on his shoulder. It's interesting to think how each companion would have reacted in this doomed scenario.

And good lord, he is a historical figure fanboy, isn't he?

The idea of being a catalyst is interesting and starts delving into timey-wimey level of speculation. Hrm.

(Isn't it great to have new canon to debate?!)

[elisi]

I think you're right about the companion issue.
Well I'm just repeating RTD, really! *g* But yes, the fact that he had no one to talk to - or look after - other than himself was a *huge* (possibly crucial) factor. Because Adelaide wasn't a companion, she was one of those directly affected, and he couldn't be honest with her the way he could Donna in Pompeii.

And good lord, he is a historical figure fanboy, isn't he?
Totally. Hence the marrying of the Queen, I think, and the whole 'big people/little people' speech. Not that he doesn't admire 'ordinary' people, but the famous ones don't need a hand up, as it were. They are more on his own level. (I think this was one of the main factors with Adelaide - she went out and found the stars herself.)

The idea of being a catalyst is interesting and starts delving into timey-wimey level of speculation. Hrm.
It does rather, doesn't it? *loves show*

(Isn't it great to have new canon to debate?!)
It's fantastic! :D