oh my love, don't forsake me-take what the water gave me
So I've been writing. You may know this, you may not.
There's a lot to say about that, actually. I could tell you how being inspired & wanting to write feels like a itch underneath my skin, makes me jittery and worried that I'm forgetting something, until I write, until the words spill out of my veins like blood did once upon a time.
Writing is-not hard, precisely, but difficult somehow nonetheless. Using my life for inspiration is uncomfortable, to say the least.
You could read this, and then you might know a little of what I'm not very good at saying.
(2:55:17 PM) Erika: i wish i didn't have so many friends who knew me so well
(2:55:25 PM) Erika: i'd like to have a friend who doesn't know me at all
(2:55:28 PM) Erika: who takes what i say on face value
(2:55:36 PM) Erika: [name]'s close, i think
(2:56:17 PM)
panda: such as?
(2:56:26 PM) panda: i mean what do you want taken at face value?
(2:57:18 PM) Erika: writing a story should be like having a conversation with yourself
(2:57:23 PM) Erika: where you always know exactly what you're going to say
(2:57:24 PM) Erika: but it's not
(2:57:34 PM) Erika: it's like having a conversation with yourself where you have no idea what you're going to say next
(2:57:39 PM) panda: lol true
(2:57:53 PM) Erika: it's like having a conversation with someone you know too well
(2:58:01 PM) Erika: there are so many layers to everything
(2:58:21 PM) Erika: you could've said a great many things to what i said, the bit that started with 'so many friends who know me so well'
(2:58:24 PM) Erika: you could've taken offense
(2:58:35 PM) Erika: but you didn't, because you knew i didn't mean it to be offensive
(2:58:43 PM) panda: true
(2:58:48 PM) Erika: you know me
(2:58:55 PM) Erika: and that is very uncomfortable for me
(2:59:00 PM) Erika: people who know me
(2:59:19 PM) panda: i could start randomly taking offense at the things you say
(2:59:20 PM) panda: :P
(2:59:32 PM) panda: but that is not actually the issue
(2:59:36 PM) Erika: no it isn't
(2:59:38 PM) Erika: and i know you know that
(2:59:40 PM) Erika: because i know you too
(2:59:50 PM) Erika: but i've spent so long trying not to know myself that i'm not sure i can change that
(3:00:02 PM) Erika: and you already know i don't really want to
(3:00:16 PM) panda: yeah
(3:00:39 PM) panda: having people know you when you are trying to lie to yourself is pretty uncomfortable
(3:01:12 PM) panda: lie to yourself/ignore whatever is actually going on
(3:01:24 PM) Erika: yes
(3:01:27 PM) Erika: go on
(3:02:09 PM) panda: it's a defense mechanism, telling yourself that you're a certain way
(3:02:19 PM) panda: trying to trick yourself into believing that it's actually true
(3:02:54 PM) panda: and if someone comes along and calls you on your shit, then it's like that familiar pattern is being ripped away
(3:03:05 PM) Erika: yes
(3:03:10 PM) Erika: to all of it
(3:03:24 PM) Erika: although my friends have better manners than to really call me on my shit
(3:03:29 PM) panda: i mean telling yourself "i am this way" can be just as ingrained a habit as anything else
(3:03:36 PM) panda: well you know what i mean
(3:03:39 PM) Erika: i do
(3:03:46 PM) panda: sometimes they "call you" on it just by being there
(3:03:49 PM) Erika: yes
(3:04:19 PM) panda: they aren't deliberately being like "hey! you're full of shit!"
(3:04:23 PM) panda: but they know
(3:04:26 PM) panda: and you know they know
(3:04:27 PM) Erika: yes
(3:04:38 PM) Erika: no one says anything, but it's in everything they say
(3:04:47 PM) panda: and you can try and pretend they're wrong
(3:04:53 PM) Erika: and we're back to me wishing that i could talk to someone who took everything i said at face value
(3:04:53 PM) panda: but deep down you know it's not true
(3:05:04 PM) Erika: mmm
(3:05:09 PM) Erika: somewhere you can't change
(3:05:33 PM) panda: and there's a dissonance between what you're trying to tell yourself, and what you know deep down is true
(3:05:35 PM) Erika: it's a phrase i've used a number of times in this story so far
(3:05:37 PM) Erika: yes
(3:05:39 PM) panda: which is very uncomfortable
(3:05:41 PM) Erika: extremely
(3:05:45 PM) Erika: that is just what i was going to say
(3:05:48 PM) Erika: it is very uncomfortable
(3:05:53 PM) panda: and you can kind of hate people for making you feel that dissonance
(3:05:56 PM) panda: except it's not their fault
(3:06:09 PM) Erika: i skip over the disliking other people for making me see the truth part
(3:06:13 PM) Erika: and just go straight to hating myself
(3:06:17 PM) Erika: it's simpler that way
(3:06:20 PM) panda: heh
(3:06:22 PM) panda: fair enough
(3:06:34 PM) Erika: it's funny
(3:06:55 PM) Erika: when i first started thinking of this story, i thought i identified the most with [my main character]
(3:07:12 PM) Erika: but he has reasons for what he does
(3:07:19 PM) Erika: [romantic interest] stays away out of self-preservation
(3:07:43 PM) Erika: self-preservation or the ideals he doesn't think he has anymore
(3:08:02 PM) panda: and acting out of self-presevation when you feel like you aren't worth being preserved is pretty fucking uncomfortable too
(3:08:22 PM) Erika: yes
(3:08:33 PM) Erika: you end up pulling your punches
(3:08:52 PM) Erika: if someone threatened my dogs, i would kill them, metaphorically or literally
(3:09:15 PM) Erika: but if someone threatens me, i have to push past not caring about me to do anything
(3:10:01 PM) Erika: perhaps i should take up a martial art, but i'm not sure anything but mortal terror could convince me to develop a real sense of self-preservation
(3:10:08 PM) Erika: and even then, i give it even odds
(3:10:13 PM) panda: you don't actually want someone who takes everything you say at face value
(3:10:39 PM) Erika: no, i don't, you're right
(3:10:44 PM) Erika: what do you think i want, i'm curious
(3:10:48 PM) panda: bc then they would get offended at shit you did not mean to be offensive and you would have to deal with explaining yourself and whatever, and you hate that shit
(3:11:07 PM) Erika: true
(3:11:39 PM) Erika: do you know what i want, panda?
(3:11:43 PM) Erika: i'll give you a hint, and it's a very simple one
(3:11:49 PM) Erika: it only requires adding one word
(3:12:10 PM) Erika: and changing a couple, i think, for the grammatical structure to remain intact
(3:12:18 PM) panda: adding one word to which?
(3:12:23 PM) Erika: if you had said 'you don't actually want someone else to take everything you say at face value'
(3:12:35 PM) Erika: it would have been more true
(3:12:43 PM) Erika: i don't want someone else to believe me
(3:12:46 PM) Erika: i want to believe myself
(3:13:00 PM) panda: i did know that
(3:13:08 PM) panda: i mean that was what i was about to say
(3:13:14 PM) Erika: i thought you knew
(3:13:18 PM) Erika: which is why it wasn't very hard to say
(3:13:27 PM) panda: heh <3
(3:13:35 PM) panda: well i mean that's kind of the point of this conversation, that i do know
(3:13:37 PM) Erika: yes
(3:13:47 PM) Erika: and that i don't, because i've been running away from knowing
(3:14:01 PM) Erika: it would be easier if i could blame this on someone else, but maybe i'm wrong and it wouldn't be
(3:14:05 PM) Erika: after all, i'm used to blaming everything on me
(3:14:18 PM) Erika: so the easiest thing to do would be to keep doing that
(3:14:39 PM) panda: yeah.
(3:14:41 PM) Erika: i don't know what's behind the curtain, is the problem
(3:15:25 PM) Erika: i honestly don't
(3:15:31 PM) Erika: that's why i stopped meditating
(3:15:41 PM) panda: you don't want to know
(3:15:46 PM) panda: because the unknown is frightening
(3:15:51 PM) Erika: no
(3:15:54 PM) Erika: the unknown is safe
(3:16:00 PM) Erika: not always
(3:16:02 PM) Erika: but here, it is
(3:16:11 PM) Erika: if i don't know for certain that i'm a bad person, then maybe i'm not
(3:16:43 PM) panda: right i meant finding out what's in the unknown is frightening
(3:16:46 PM) Erika: yes
(3:16:48 PM) panda: going out into the unknown
(3:16:52 PM) Erika: and you could tell me that i'm not a bad person
(3:16:58 PM) Erika: but no matter how well you know me, shouldn't i know myself better?
(3:17:04 PM) Erika: isn't that how it works?
(3:17:18 PM) panda: not if you've been lying to yourself so long
(3:17:31 PM) Erika: yes
(3:17:43 PM) Erika: but there's no shared dreaming here
(3:17:46 PM) Erika: no shared consciousness
(3:17:57 PM) Erika: there's no way for me to tell whether i'm only lying to myself, or whether i'm lying to everyone
(3:18:29 PM) Erika: i had a picture once, of myself as a young girl
(3:18:51 PM) Erika: i had it for some stupid reason, i think i read somewhere that if you're depressed and you hate yourself, you should find a picture of yourself when you were younger and ask yourself if that person deserved this
(3:19:05 PM) Erika: i'm pretty sure i lost the picture in the fire
(3:19:12 PM) panda: :(
(3:19:18 PM) Erika: but i think... if someone performed an extraction on me
(3:19:23 PM) Erika: that picture would be what they would find
(3:19:28 PM) Erika: no matter what they were looking for
(3:19:41 PM) Erika: but the problem is that when i saw that picture, the last time i saw it, i said to myself 'she deserved it'
(3:19:52 PM) Erika: and no matter how hard i try, i don't know whether that was a lie
(3:20:49 PM) panda: you didn't deserve it
(3:21:01 PM) Erika: i know you believe that
(3:21:07 PM) Erika: but i honestly have no idea what i believe.
(3:21:39 PM) panda: yeah
(3:22:32 PM) Erika: the foolish man built his house upon the sand
(3:23:31 PM) Erika: ugh
(3:23:34 PM) Erika: forgive me for being maudlin
(3:23:40 PM) Erika: i'm neither drunk nor hungover, and thus i have no excuse
(3:23:47 PM) panda: haha no worries
(3:24:31 PM) panda: i am amazed I'm being as coherent as i am being
(3:24:37 PM) Erika: you are being very coherent
(3:24:41 PM) Erika: i should give you a present for that
(3:25:16 PM) Erika: one would think that if i have been lying to myself for 20 years, i should want to find out the truth. or one could also think that since i have been lying to myself for 20 years, i could keep on lying the rest of my life.
(3:25:32 PM) Erika: two roads divurged in a snowy wood, and i took both.
(3:26:10 PM) panda: those are both logical ideas, but sometimes logic means shit when dealing with stuff like this
(3:26:18 PM) Erika: the cognitive dissonance is very overwhelming, i must admit
(3:27:06 PM) Erika: i'm not even sure what i'm lying about anymore
(3:27:20 PM) Erika: the cornerstone of an effective lie is knowing the truth
(3:27:44 PM) Erika: so i can't lie effectively, and i don't know the truth
(3:27:47 PM) Erika: i have no idea what's left
(3:28:10 PM) panda: well i vote you start meditating again
(3:28:27 PM) Erika: you might be right
(3:28:29 PM) Erika: but how would i know?
(3:28:59 PM) panda: try it
(3:29:19 PM) Erika: is that how this works?
(3:30:45 PM) panda: well you could not try it
(3:30:50 PM) panda: but then you would still be at square 1
(3:31:05 PM) Erika: mm
(3:36:37 PM) panda: what are you doing today
(3:36:46 PM) Erika: currently or in the larger sense
(3:36:52 PM) panda: yes
(3:37:05 PM) panda: both
(3:37:20 PM) Erika: currently i am engaging in a somewhat philosophical discussion of what i wrote yesterday with a friend of mine
(3:37:39 PM) Erika: in the larger sense, as usual, i have no idea
If you didn't read that conversation, don't worry too much. It's turtles all the way down.
Originally posted at Dreamwidth. Comment there (
), or feel free to comment here.
There's a lot to say about that, actually. I could tell you how being inspired & wanting to write feels like a itch underneath my skin, makes me jittery and worried that I'm forgetting something, until I write, until the words spill out of my veins like blood did once upon a time.
Writing is-not hard, precisely, but difficult somehow nonetheless. Using my life for inspiration is uncomfortable, to say the least.
You could read this, and then you might know a little of what I'm not very good at saying.
(2:55:17 PM) Erika: i wish i didn't have so many friends who knew me so well
(2:55:25 PM) Erika: i'd like to have a friend who doesn't know me at all
(2:55:28 PM) Erika: who takes what i say on face value
(2:55:36 PM) Erika: [name]'s close, i think
(2:56:17 PM)
panda: such as?
(2:56:26 PM) panda: i mean what do you want taken at face value?
(2:57:18 PM) Erika: writing a story should be like having a conversation with yourself
(2:57:23 PM) Erika: where you always know exactly what you're going to say
(2:57:24 PM) Erika: but it's not
(2:57:34 PM) Erika: it's like having a conversation with yourself where you have no idea what you're going to say next
(2:57:39 PM) panda: lol true
(2:57:53 PM) Erika: it's like having a conversation with someone you know too well
(2:58:01 PM) Erika: there are so many layers to everything
(2:58:21 PM) Erika: you could've said a great many things to what i said, the bit that started with 'so many friends who know me so well'
(2:58:24 PM) Erika: you could've taken offense
(2:58:35 PM) Erika: but you didn't, because you knew i didn't mean it to be offensive
(2:58:43 PM) panda: true
(2:58:48 PM) Erika: you know me
(2:58:55 PM) Erika: and that is very uncomfortable for me
(2:59:00 PM) Erika: people who know me
(2:59:19 PM) panda: i could start randomly taking offense at the things you say
(2:59:20 PM) panda: :P
(2:59:32 PM) panda: but that is not actually the issue
(2:59:36 PM) Erika: no it isn't
(2:59:38 PM) Erika: and i know you know that
(2:59:40 PM) Erika: because i know you too
(2:59:50 PM) Erika: but i've spent so long trying not to know myself that i'm not sure i can change that
(3:00:02 PM) Erika: and you already know i don't really want to
(3:00:16 PM) panda: yeah
(3:00:39 PM) panda: having people know you when you are trying to lie to yourself is pretty uncomfortable
(3:01:12 PM) panda: lie to yourself/ignore whatever is actually going on
(3:01:24 PM) Erika: yes
(3:01:27 PM) Erika: go on
(3:02:09 PM) panda: it's a defense mechanism, telling yourself that you're a certain way
(3:02:19 PM) panda: trying to trick yourself into believing that it's actually true
(3:02:54 PM) panda: and if someone comes along and calls you on your shit, then it's like that familiar pattern is being ripped away
(3:03:05 PM) Erika: yes
(3:03:10 PM) Erika: to all of it
(3:03:24 PM) Erika: although my friends have better manners than to really call me on my shit
(3:03:29 PM) panda: i mean telling yourself "i am this way" can be just as ingrained a habit as anything else
(3:03:36 PM) panda: well you know what i mean
(3:03:39 PM) Erika: i do
(3:03:46 PM) panda: sometimes they "call you" on it just by being there
(3:03:49 PM) Erika: yes
(3:04:19 PM) panda: they aren't deliberately being like "hey! you're full of shit!"
(3:04:23 PM) panda: but they know
(3:04:26 PM) panda: and you know they know
(3:04:27 PM) Erika: yes
(3:04:38 PM) Erika: no one says anything, but it's in everything they say
(3:04:47 PM) panda: and you can try and pretend they're wrong
(3:04:53 PM) Erika: and we're back to me wishing that i could talk to someone who took everything i said at face value
(3:04:53 PM) panda: but deep down you know it's not true
(3:05:04 PM) Erika: mmm
(3:05:09 PM) Erika: somewhere you can't change
(3:05:33 PM) panda: and there's a dissonance between what you're trying to tell yourself, and what you know deep down is true
(3:05:35 PM) Erika: it's a phrase i've used a number of times in this story so far
(3:05:37 PM) Erika: yes
(3:05:39 PM) panda: which is very uncomfortable
(3:05:41 PM) Erika: extremely
(3:05:45 PM) Erika: that is just what i was going to say
(3:05:48 PM) Erika: it is very uncomfortable
(3:05:53 PM) panda: and you can kind of hate people for making you feel that dissonance
(3:05:56 PM) panda: except it's not their fault
(3:06:09 PM) Erika: i skip over the disliking other people for making me see the truth part
(3:06:13 PM) Erika: and just go straight to hating myself
(3:06:17 PM) Erika: it's simpler that way
(3:06:20 PM) panda: heh
(3:06:22 PM) panda: fair enough
(3:06:34 PM) Erika: it's funny
(3:06:55 PM) Erika: when i first started thinking of this story, i thought i identified the most with [my main character]
(3:07:12 PM) Erika: but he has reasons for what he does
(3:07:19 PM) Erika: [romantic interest] stays away out of self-preservation
(3:07:43 PM) Erika: self-preservation or the ideals he doesn't think he has anymore
(3:08:02 PM) panda: and acting out of self-presevation when you feel like you aren't worth being preserved is pretty fucking uncomfortable too
(3:08:22 PM) Erika: yes
(3:08:33 PM) Erika: you end up pulling your punches
(3:08:52 PM) Erika: if someone threatened my dogs, i would kill them, metaphorically or literally
(3:09:15 PM) Erika: but if someone threatens me, i have to push past not caring about me to do anything
(3:10:01 PM) Erika: perhaps i should take up a martial art, but i'm not sure anything but mortal terror could convince me to develop a real sense of self-preservation
(3:10:08 PM) Erika: and even then, i give it even odds
(3:10:13 PM) panda: you don't actually want someone who takes everything you say at face value
(3:10:39 PM) Erika: no, i don't, you're right
(3:10:44 PM) Erika: what do you think i want, i'm curious
(3:10:48 PM) panda: bc then they would get offended at shit you did not mean to be offensive and you would have to deal with explaining yourself and whatever, and you hate that shit
(3:11:07 PM) Erika: true
(3:11:39 PM) Erika: do you know what i want, panda?
(3:11:43 PM) Erika: i'll give you a hint, and it's a very simple one
(3:11:49 PM) Erika: it only requires adding one word
(3:12:10 PM) Erika: and changing a couple, i think, for the grammatical structure to remain intact
(3:12:18 PM) panda: adding one word to which?
(3:12:23 PM) Erika: if you had said 'you don't actually want someone else to take everything you say at face value'
(3:12:35 PM) Erika: it would have been more true
(3:12:43 PM) Erika: i don't want someone else to believe me
(3:12:46 PM) Erika: i want to believe myself
(3:13:00 PM) panda: i did know that
(3:13:08 PM) panda: i mean that was what i was about to say
(3:13:14 PM) Erika: i thought you knew
(3:13:18 PM) Erika: which is why it wasn't very hard to say
(3:13:27 PM) panda: heh <3
(3:13:35 PM) panda: well i mean that's kind of the point of this conversation, that i do know
(3:13:37 PM) Erika: yes
(3:13:47 PM) Erika: and that i don't, because i've been running away from knowing
(3:14:01 PM) Erika: it would be easier if i could blame this on someone else, but maybe i'm wrong and it wouldn't be
(3:14:05 PM) Erika: after all, i'm used to blaming everything on me
(3:14:18 PM) Erika: so the easiest thing to do would be to keep doing that
(3:14:39 PM) panda: yeah.
(3:14:41 PM) Erika: i don't know what's behind the curtain, is the problem
(3:15:25 PM) Erika: i honestly don't
(3:15:31 PM) Erika: that's why i stopped meditating
(3:15:41 PM) panda: you don't want to know
(3:15:46 PM) panda: because the unknown is frightening
(3:15:51 PM) Erika: no
(3:15:54 PM) Erika: the unknown is safe
(3:16:00 PM) Erika: not always
(3:16:02 PM) Erika: but here, it is
(3:16:11 PM) Erika: if i don't know for certain that i'm a bad person, then maybe i'm not
(3:16:43 PM) panda: right i meant finding out what's in the unknown is frightening
(3:16:46 PM) Erika: yes
(3:16:48 PM) panda: going out into the unknown
(3:16:52 PM) Erika: and you could tell me that i'm not a bad person
(3:16:58 PM) Erika: but no matter how well you know me, shouldn't i know myself better?
(3:17:04 PM) Erika: isn't that how it works?
(3:17:18 PM) panda: not if you've been lying to yourself so long
(3:17:31 PM) Erika: yes
(3:17:43 PM) Erika: but there's no shared dreaming here
(3:17:46 PM) Erika: no shared consciousness
(3:17:57 PM) Erika: there's no way for me to tell whether i'm only lying to myself, or whether i'm lying to everyone
(3:18:29 PM) Erika: i had a picture once, of myself as a young girl
(3:18:51 PM) Erika: i had it for some stupid reason, i think i read somewhere that if you're depressed and you hate yourself, you should find a picture of yourself when you were younger and ask yourself if that person deserved this
(3:19:05 PM) Erika: i'm pretty sure i lost the picture in the fire
(3:19:12 PM) panda: :(
(3:19:18 PM) Erika: but i think... if someone performed an extraction on me
(3:19:23 PM) Erika: that picture would be what they would find
(3:19:28 PM) Erika: no matter what they were looking for
(3:19:41 PM) Erika: but the problem is that when i saw that picture, the last time i saw it, i said to myself 'she deserved it'
(3:19:52 PM) Erika: and no matter how hard i try, i don't know whether that was a lie
(3:20:49 PM) panda: you didn't deserve it
(3:21:01 PM) Erika: i know you believe that
(3:21:07 PM) Erika: but i honestly have no idea what i believe.
(3:21:39 PM) panda: yeah
(3:22:32 PM) Erika: the foolish man built his house upon the sand
(3:23:31 PM) Erika: ugh
(3:23:34 PM) Erika: forgive me for being maudlin
(3:23:40 PM) Erika: i'm neither drunk nor hungover, and thus i have no excuse
(3:23:47 PM) panda: haha no worries
(3:24:31 PM) panda: i am amazed I'm being as coherent as i am being
(3:24:37 PM) Erika: you are being very coherent
(3:24:41 PM) Erika: i should give you a present for that
(3:25:16 PM) Erika: one would think that if i have been lying to myself for 20 years, i should want to find out the truth. or one could also think that since i have been lying to myself for 20 years, i could keep on lying the rest of my life.
(3:25:32 PM) Erika: two roads divurged in a snowy wood, and i took both.
(3:26:10 PM) panda: those are both logical ideas, but sometimes logic means shit when dealing with stuff like this
(3:26:18 PM) Erika: the cognitive dissonance is very overwhelming, i must admit
(3:27:06 PM) Erika: i'm not even sure what i'm lying about anymore
(3:27:20 PM) Erika: the cornerstone of an effective lie is knowing the truth
(3:27:44 PM) Erika: so i can't lie effectively, and i don't know the truth
(3:27:47 PM) Erika: i have no idea what's left
(3:28:10 PM) panda: well i vote you start meditating again
(3:28:27 PM) Erika: you might be right
(3:28:29 PM) Erika: but how would i know?
(3:28:59 PM) panda: try it
(3:29:19 PM) Erika: is that how this works?
(3:30:45 PM) panda: well you could not try it
(3:30:50 PM) panda: but then you would still be at square 1
(3:31:05 PM) Erika: mm
(3:36:37 PM) panda: what are you doing today
(3:36:46 PM) Erika: currently or in the larger sense
(3:36:52 PM) panda: yes
(3:37:05 PM) panda: both
(3:37:20 PM) Erika: currently i am engaging in a somewhat philosophical discussion of what i wrote yesterday with a friend of mine
(3:37:39 PM) Erika: in the larger sense, as usual, i have no idea
If you didn't read that conversation, don't worry too much. It's turtles all the way down.
Originally posted at Dreamwidth. Comment there (
), or feel free to comment here.