shemem wrote in the barackobama2008 LJ forum,

Nov 03, 2008 08:08

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terpsichoros November 3 2008, 19:52:33 UTC
This is so disingenuous.

People aren't calling Obama an elitist because he has a law degree, they're calling him an elitist because he appears out of touch with America's working class. He may be promising them handouts or lower taxes, but he fundamentally doesn't understand them, and seems to show contempt for them. That is why the "elitism" charge sticks, not his law degree.

There's a difference between judging someone for having gotten pregnant when it would be inconvenient to do so, and judging someone for killing her baby. Certain actions have much less ambiguity depending on their circumstances. (And besides, conservatives - evangelical Christians particularly - are much less judgemental about teenagers getting pregnant than are liberals.)

I still don't understand how it is kindness or generosity on the part of Person A to take money by force from Person B to give to Person C. (And conservatives excel here, too - conservatives give far more money and time to charities than do liberals.)

The tenor of most of the people supporting equal marriage rights is not terribly respectful of other people's religious beliefs.

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angry_american November 3 2008, 20:56:27 UTC
I think, although this was posted to an Obama forum, that this appears here as a general note about liberal beliefs and how they arrive from values that are more universal than political affiliation. Because of its accusatory tone, I do not think it was meant to beg agreement. If anything, the speaker confesses that they took these things to be important (as opposed to others) and that is why they believe what they believe. There is a recognition of the limitations of "I" and "you"; the disagreements follow from the interpretation of common principles.

Great endevours begin by acknowledging our humanity and the limitations of it so that we can overcome them. These statements show one limitation. Your statements show another. With enough of these we will learn to work together, even if now it seems we cannot.

-FW

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cinnicat November 3 2008, 21:28:59 UTC
Please do not tell me how conservatives think. I'll decide how I act or judge for myself, thank you. :)

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groblek November 4 2008, 04:48:42 UTC
"The tenor of most of the people supporting equal marriage rights is not terribly respectful of other people's religious beliefs."

I'll admit to being guilty as charged on that one - it's because quite frankly, I have no respect for their beliefs on that issue. As a Christian myself, I've studied the passages cited, and can't find the support for their position. Moreover, I and friends of mine have been told that we're not real Christians since we don't think homosexuality is wrong. So no, I don't respect the religious beliefs of people promoting prop 8, enough of them have done far too much to disrespect mine and give my religion enough of a bad name that it took me years to be willing to advertise myself as a Christian, simply because of what people automatically associate with that. I'll grant the supporters of prop 8 the courtesy of letting them practice their religion their way in peace, as long as they're not trying to insist that I agree with them, or trying to make those beliefs public policy.
Also, I'm a very firm believer in separation of church and state - if the primary arguments for or against a policy are from the tenets of a particular religion, even my own, I think that's crossing a dangerous line which I don't want crossed. I know enough history not to want anything resembling a state religion.

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woodsball_ronin December 27 2008, 01:00:49 UTC
Bravo, sir. I know my comments come late, but you have articulated a number of my own arguments more clearly and concisely than I have been able to.

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