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[sataniscooler]

ugh, I hate being the only one I know who watches the L word, because I have no one to vent to >:[

and I officially hate all message boards besides straight dope. I can't tolerate idiots.

Comments

[finnagain]

It is, in many ways, still the best board on the 'net. But it is, also, in many ways, a tiny step up from other boards.

The end point for me, personally, have been a number of threads on Israel that have been trolled thoroughly. Posters like Pantom who have claimed that Israel was deliberately targeting UN officers... because of course, in his own trollish claims, it is not only possible to notice, but impossible not to notice a blue helmet on a black and white video gunner's screen.

Or RTFirefly who, without even knowing what Hamas' stated goals are, were, who their backing is, etc... was busy crapping all over a thread, inventing facts and argument as he went.

Those, of course, aren't the only areas that that have ignorant fucks shitting all over them, but they're some of the ones that stand out in my mind.

"I don't know fuck-all about the topic at hand, but I'm determined to cause conflict" is about the most concise statement of trolling I can think of... but the mods most often err on the side of thinking posters are 'merely' stupid, rather than trollish.

Myself, I wonder what the difference is if the end result is exactly the same, but there you have it. Mods, especially Great Debates mods, believe that their obvious trolls are in fact simply, absolutely, morons.

But there you have it. Idiots abound.

[sataniscooler]

eh. I don't really frequent the Pit or GD all that much... for me it's enough just to be able to talk about mundane things with people who can punctuate and don't type in capslock.

also, you must realize that your opinion on Israel is about as popular among (non-Jewish) thinkers as Dubya. it's a volatile situation, and there are going to be a lot of gut reactions no matter where you go. the only way you're going to get away from that is by joining a message board where people either hold the exact same opinions as you or just don't like arguing.

[finnagain]

The problem isn't one of opinion, but fact. Claims like the color blue can be seen on a black and white display. Or that all Israel has to do is leave territories, and there will be peace... exactly like there was in Gaza and Lebanon. Or that Israel was "stolen" from the Palestinians, who were a cohesive people with a common identity and who actually owned the land that was taken. Or that when Israel responds to attacks targeted at its civilians, that it is the "aggressor"; language and truth do not take a back seat to opinion, and such orwellian twisting of meaning until the one who was attacked is now the initiator?

The problem isn't a difference of opinion, the problem is a difference in honest, integrity, honor, and intellectual honesty. The problem is people who wouldn't qualify for a "C" in a MENA politics course, but think they can expound at length on the current situation. The problem is people who wouldn't know Hamas from Hezbollah, or Islamic Jihad from the Muslim Brotherhood, and still want to hold forth on the situation.

The problem, as most do, comes down to willful ignorance and fractured chains of thought. Much like Bush supporters had to resist cognitive dissonance to both claim that the war in Iraq was being won and that the definition of victory meant a stable, peaceful democratic Iraq. But Bush could be supported, as long as one set their premises honestly. "Bush is winning in Iraq and we're doing it for them" fails the acid test. But "Bush has accomplished our strategic goals by frightening other nations, and the Iraqi people are irrelevant." would be a coherent and honest position from which to disagree.

Just as "Israel is bent on ethnic cleansing and is in the process of committing genocide" fails the Bullshit Test. But "I support the ongoing campaign , which many in the nations in the Arab take part in, to commit genocide upon Israel." would be a coherent and honest position from which to disagree.

No, I am not attacking axioms, or perceptions, or opinions. I am attacking laziness, intellectual dishonesty, willful ignorance, trollish fight-picking, and a host of other vices required to make up such a stark raving incoherent and irrational worldview.

It is an ignorance of history that drives us to repeat it, and an ignorance of the history of the Levant that is, and has been over the last several years, helping give fuel and cover to a massive rising tide of global anti-semitism.

This is not abstract. And when looney leftists who're more crunchy than granola want to endanger me, my family, and any children yet unborn... and do this because they are liars, or repeating the claims of other liars because they themselves are ignorant fucks too lazy to fact check, or what have you... that'll do it for me.

And when that sort of bullshit is crapped in lieu of actual discussion, I object. An honest debate by a well informed person is something I would actually welcome.

And I have never, ever, ever, ever, seen that actually happen.

[finnagain]

Or for a more concise, less passionate rebuttal to a specific instance of intellectual whoring: tadah.

mwahahaha, final response thingy in a serious of three

[finnagain]

Or this...