The sexual harassment discussion
A fellow I know made what I thought was a reasonable post, but it's locked, so I can't link it. To which I replied to the effect of: I think the outrage and then die-down that we keep seeing is just skimming the surface, that behind every one of these outed guys is years of cultural programming, through media, behaviors of parents and elders, peers, conveying the idea that women are on display for men to choose, and if he chooses one, she should be grateful.
They can claim that the woman gave them mixed signals. Well, if so, many women give mixed signals in turning a guy down because a turned-down guy can get angry and suddenly a slightly uncomfortable social situation shifts into fear mode. She's trained to "be nice," not to rock the boat, to return a soft answer.
Over my years I have had countless conversations on this subject, especially in regard to het dynamics: women observing that guys can be so clueless and pushy, that they don't even perceive boundaries, much take a hint about crossing them, and I've heard from guys (especially younger males just venturing into the world) that girls will say one thing and mean another, that they seem to expect you to read their minds but they don't seem to know what they want, or they all hate men. I know I've asked these guys more than once, "Do you think she might have picked up your misunderstanding her cues as anger?" But I wasn't mad! Yeah, but how was she to know that your 175 pound, six foot frame looming over her five foot, 125 pound frame isn't exuding predator threat? Nobody, man or woman, wants to suddenly find themselves prey.
I've seen younger women, in general, being more forthright, and many young men taking it much better than guys of my generation, but as always, there are exceptions to everything.
As I too often am, I could be 100% wrong, so I thought I'd see if anyone wanted to discuss it. Without accusing individuals, or attacking them, or ascribing motivations to either of the persons concerned in the original brouhaha (which I am not linking to, if you haven't seen it; the subject can still be discussed, I think).
They can claim that the woman gave them mixed signals. Well, if so, many women give mixed signals in turning a guy down because a turned-down guy can get angry and suddenly a slightly uncomfortable social situation shifts into fear mode. She's trained to "be nice," not to rock the boat, to return a soft answer.
Over my years I have had countless conversations on this subject, especially in regard to het dynamics: women observing that guys can be so clueless and pushy, that they don't even perceive boundaries, much take a hint about crossing them, and I've heard from guys (especially younger males just venturing into the world) that girls will say one thing and mean another, that they seem to expect you to read their minds but they don't seem to know what they want, or they all hate men. I know I've asked these guys more than once, "Do you think she might have picked up your misunderstanding her cues as anger?" But I wasn't mad! Yeah, but how was she to know that your 175 pound, six foot frame looming over her five foot, 125 pound frame isn't exuding predator threat? Nobody, man or woman, wants to suddenly find themselves prey.
I've seen younger women, in general, being more forthright, and many young men taking it much better than guys of my generation, but as always, there are exceptions to everything.
As I too often am, I could be 100% wrong, so I thought I'd see if anyone wanted to discuss it. Without accusing individuals, or attacking them, or ascribing motivations to either of the persons concerned in the original brouhaha (which I am not linking to, if you haven't seen it; the subject can still be discussed, I think).