Yes, I think that distinction is very important (and I'm afraid I didn't make it totally clear the first time around, hence my addendum): it's not that Dean isn't loved; it's just that the writing seems more interested in exploring his relationships with/through the other team members than the other way around.
In one way, I'm happy for it? We get a very intimate, three-dimensional understanding of Dean. But in another way, I miss that same intimate, three-dimensional understanding of, say, Sam. You know?
They also know he just keeps on trucking along, no matter bad his issues are. They know that he'll suck it up. That he'll get the job done, one way or another.
I have to admit that this doesn't work for me? If only because that means it would mean that the characters writing (dictating) the scripts, and that's just something I resist in general. But also because we see him in crisis, and they are there with the opportunity and reason and concern to talk with one another about him... but they don't.
I agree with you that there are so many relationship elements that the show gets right, especially with Dean. I think that's part of why I miss it so much for Sam, especially. I don't like having my understanding of the two leads in a two-lead show so lopsided, you know?
we see him in crisis, and they are there with the opportunity and reason and concern to talk with one another about him... but they don't.
I often wonder how many well-intentioned details of a script hit the cutting floor, too, something I didn't mention above. I know I read an interview with Jared where he mentioned that he had been incorporating a lot of little moments earlier this season when Sam was reacting/trying to ignore Hallucifer's presence but that many of those moments didn't make the final cut because of time constraints.
I do hold the writers accountable to a degree for not doing a better job balancing the presentation of POVs because if something is considered unimportant enough to hit the cutting floor when editing down an episode, that's understandable, but I wish they would find other ways to make sure those character moments make it to the screen if it is truly intended. We've all noticed a couple of different time when Sam or Dean will reference a conversation that's already taken place that we never saw, but that addresses a question of whether Dean or Sam noticed X, or asked about X, or was completely in denial about X, so clearly the writers do some belated clean-up work on this front.
But then I remind myself that there are so many fingers in the pie behind the scenes focused on servicing different needs in order to complete the process of script to aired episode on TV, so I remind myself of that when I get frustrated with some of my personal scripting or pacing issues. ;)
Yeah, I think you're right about the cutting room floor. A little off on a tangent with that: I wish they would also tell their actors more than they apparently do, rather than just letting them read the script for one episode after the previous one is finished, because it messes the internal consistency of those little character moments that do end up on screen. I don't know if they just really don't have it planned out very well, or if they just don't want to share it with the actors to avoid "leaks" or something, but for example, Soulless Sam. Jared did great with Soulless Sam in all of his incarnations, but there were little notes that didn't make sense anymore if Soulless Sam was supposed to be incapable of feeling, etc. Well, then that whole plot was horribly inconsistent in my opinion, but just to point out for the acting aspect that I wish they had told him what exactly it meant within the show's reality for Sam to be Soulless, so he would have been able to tie it all together. It's kind of like JDM's expression when John told Dean the secret: John had this almost beatific expression on his face that is so at odds with what we know he told Dean. Did they not tell him it was horrible, what he was saying? Or did they want to safeguard their "secret" that badly? I just don't get the writers' decision to be close-lipped with their own production team. Sometimes they want Sam kept as a mystery so badly that it hurts his characterization through no fault of any actor. That drives me up the wall.
But oops, now I have rambled completely off topic. Sorry!
I wonder how many X talks about Dean scenes were dropped because they weren't strictly plot-relevant; I think it was a little harder with a lot of the Bobby/Dean scenes about Sam in "Lucifer Rising," "You Can't Handle The Truth," etc., since Sam sort of was the plot, for their scenes, anyway. It'd be nice if character scenes about Dean were more plot-relevant, so they would be less likely to be cut.
In one way, I'm happy for it? We get a very intimate, three-dimensional understanding of Dean. But in another way, I miss that same intimate, three-dimensional understanding of, say, Sam. You know?
They also know he just keeps on trucking along, no matter bad his issues are. They know that he'll suck it up. That he'll get the job done, one way or another.
I have to admit that this doesn't work for me? If only because that means it would mean that the characters writing (dictating) the scripts, and that's just something I resist in general. But also because we see him in crisis, and they are there with the opportunity and reason and concern to talk with one another about him... but they don't.
I agree with you that there are so many relationship elements that the show gets right, especially with Dean. I think that's part of why I miss it so much for Sam, especially. I don't like having my understanding of the two leads in a two-lead show so lopsided, you know?
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I often wonder how many well-intentioned details of a script hit the cutting floor, too, something I didn't mention above. I know I read an interview with Jared where he mentioned that he had been incorporating a lot of little moments earlier this season when Sam was reacting/trying to ignore Hallucifer's presence but that many of those moments didn't make the final cut because of time constraints.
I do hold the writers accountable to a degree for not doing a better job balancing the presentation of POVs because if something is considered unimportant enough to hit the cutting floor when editing down an episode, that's understandable, but I wish they would find other ways to make sure those character moments make it to the screen if it is truly intended. We've all noticed a couple of different time when Sam or Dean will reference a conversation that's already taken place that we never saw, but that addresses a question of whether Dean or Sam noticed X, or asked about X, or was completely in denial about X, so clearly the writers do some belated clean-up work on this front.
But then I remind myself that there are so many fingers in the pie behind the scenes focused on servicing different needs in order to complete the process of script to aired episode on TV, so I remind myself of that when I get frustrated with some of my personal scripting or pacing issues. ;)
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But oops, now I have rambled completely off topic. Sorry!
I wonder how many X talks about Dean scenes were dropped because they weren't strictly plot-relevant; I think it was a little harder with a lot of the Bobby/Dean scenes about Sam in "Lucifer Rising," "You Can't Handle The Truth," etc., since Sam sort of was the plot, for their scenes, anyway. It'd be nice if character scenes about Dean were more plot-relevant, so they would be less likely to be cut.
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