One of my major problems with it is a problem with the last few episodes of S5: characterization, particularly choices and motivations. It seemed like there was a shift in the show's themes, so I have to pick up my understanding where it left off somewhere around 5x18 or maybe even 5x19, and then put myself down into this other new theme. Internal consistency went out the window. I was also incredibly bored with the big "fight" between Michael and Lucifer, felt disappointed by Jake Abel's Michael (not really his fault, probably), and honestly can't even remember what happened during the broken mirror stuff with Lucifer/Sam because I only watched that once and didn't care for it to start with.
Also, you know how much I love the brother relationship and the relationships in general, so that I probably don't need to offer any disclaimer in that regard? But I find it so idiotic that in 5x20--two episodes after 5x18 and all of its intensity and themes of doing it ourselves, etc.--the big new plan was for Sam to say "Yes" in an attempt to corral him into the hole. I want to love the brotherly moments that whole decision involved, but the premise is so ridiculous from the get-go that I just can't get behind it. There was absolutely no reason to believe anyone could control Lucifer, certainly not his "one true vessel"--because I would assume part of what goes into being an angel's "true vessel" would be malleability (for lack of a better word; receptiveness, responsiveness, etc.). I truly, deeply hated the debate around this plan boiled down to "You're a grownup now, Sammy," instead of, you know, "WHERE IS YOUR BRAIN? HOW IS THIS A REASONABLE PLAN?" Really, show? Dean saying "Yes" to Michael, which was written as unsympathetic and wrong and had everyone all on his case, had so much more logical reasoning behind it than this. It just makes me want to scratch my eyes out to watch it.
Then to go on from there: Sam's rage (which has been an undercurrent since S1, really, but since when is it a Big Problem that Sam has to overcome?), Bobby going with Sam's idea (what??), Castiel going with Sam's big idea (I can't even...), Dean's problem with the whole thing not being logic (god forbid) or just how much they love each other, but that he must learn to let Sam grow up or learn to love him for who he is or some such (oh my god, it's like they were trying to make the brothers back up from everything that went down in S4)... The themes and decisions just felt so out of harmony with what the characters had been through before.
Speaking of internal consistency, I don't understand why they suddenly brought in a toy soldier for this episode when the signs they had well established all the way back from S1 either were there or could have been there, one way or another: the Impala itself (let his eye catch just on her) or Dean's amulet. They could have had John's journal on the dashboard or something after Dean had looked at it once before facing Lucifer and Michael. There were so many things, but they used something with no history, that calls back to nothing that came before it. I get what they were doing and that it wasn't the toy soldier that Sam considered home, but the Impala, and that it wasn't the toy soldier that Sam loved more than anything, but Dean. But the setup and execution for it was so terribly lazy and out of left field. They needed to use what they had established as emotionally significant.
Also, just in general, I like understated writing more than big signboards blaring at me, and that's what half of the episode felt like. I love the Impala, but I didn't like the voice-over narration spelling everything out for me, and I didn't like the "payoff" of the Impala's story being the light that shined on that toy soldier. I get that it's not about the toy soldier at all, that the toy soldier is just a symbol, but... well, I went into all of that above. They had everything they needed to give that moment significance, but they threw in something new as the connection point, and that's just... very unsatisfying to me.
One of my major problems with it is a problem with the last few episodes of S5: characterization, particularly choices and motivations. It seemed like there was a shift in the show's themes
I agree. I felt that shift very much. It seemed as if they had a complete change of direction and everything was meant to make us think that what was happening was the only possible thing while there was no rational through-line for it. I also felt the disconnection of Sam saying that he's the less of them all with his absolute certitude that he'd be able to control Lucifer. Of the two one: if Sam believes he's the less of them all what makes him think he could control Lucifer? that plan acme out of nowhere, had no foreshadowing and it was absolutely crazy (and not the good kind, either).
but that he must learn to let Sam grow up or learn to love him for who he is or some such
Oh, i think that for me it was the worst part and even more so with the hypocritical writing of season 6. Let me explain: it seemed to me as if they were flattening Dean and Sam's issues so much and making them all about Dean being too controlling when I had never seen that dynamic. Dean had been rash in his decisions when Sam's well being was at stake, yes, but Sam had been able to emotionally manipulate Dean as well (think of Hunted). To see Sam say that all he did in season 4 was because Dean wasn't letting him grow up made me dislike Sam's characterization so much because season 4 hadn't felt like that at all. It was like Sam couldn't realize that Dean had almost nothing to do with his choices and they were evidences of his flaws/mistakes not of a controlling Dean. That Sam may have preferred Ruby's brand of companionship, a relationship in which he only had superficial power because Ruby was manipulating him, was a slap in the face of Sam's characterization. Apparently all he wanted in a relationship was that kind of deception. I try to ignore Sam ever said that stuff.
That got worse in season 6 for me because after having Dean back off and let Sam make his decision (as heavy-handed and flattening of their issues that was), the writers created a situation in which it's Dean who has to take responsibilities for Sam completely and to the extreme of having to decide death and life situations for him. Sam is just the poor victim. I think of season 6 that's the major disappointment for me. It was like the writers couldn't write anything else but Sam being in need of saving and Dean having to figure out what was wrong with Sam and save him.
Let's ignore the toy soldier, okay? I get what they were trying to do but it was a bad, bad choice.
I also felt the disconnection of Sam saying that he's the less of them all with his absolute certitude that he'd be able to control Lucifer.
Absolutely. Ugh. It was one of the most ridiculous things they could have chosen to do, especially after the extravagant way in which they shut down Dean's choice to say Yes. What, a better option is for someone "they need to let grow up" (of all things) give the Devil his one true vessel? Oh, please. That was all such sloppy writing, I can't even stomach watching most of that arc, to be honest.
To see Sam say that all he did in season 4 was because Dean wasn't letting him grow up made me dislike Sam's characterization so much because season 4 hadn't felt like that at all.
I AM DOING JUMPING JACKS IN MY HEAD FOR HOW MUCH I AGREE WITH THIS COMMENT. Seriously. I remember absolutely loving S4 because it felt as if the show was letting the brothers actually grow up and have a more complex relationship as a natural progression from what they had been through before. Then S5 came along ("Fallen Idols," specifically), and it was like the show pulled the rug out from under the brothers' characterization. Ugh, ugh. I try to block that out of my memory, too.
It was like the writers couldn't write anything else but Sam being in need of saving and Dean having to figure out what was wrong with Sam and save him.
The show's great and obsessive love for this particular storyline is one of its great failures, in my opinion. It's a huge disservice to Sam (forever cornering him in as an object), and what it does (or, rather, doesn't do) for Dean is... so disappointing that I lack words for how much I loathe it.
The toy soldier is happily ignored. A potentially beautiful idea with a horrible, lazy execution.
(I have to run back to work, but I will respond to your next comment soon! <333)
One of my major problems with it is a problem with the last few episodes of S5: characterization, particularly choices and motivations. It seemed like there was a shift in the show's themes, so I have to pick up my understanding where it left off somewhere around 5x18 or maybe even 5x19, and then put myself down into this other new theme. Internal consistency went out the window. I was also incredibly bored with the big "fight" between Michael and Lucifer, felt disappointed by Jake Abel's Michael (not really his fault, probably), and honestly can't even remember what happened during the broken mirror stuff with Lucifer/Sam because I only watched that once and didn't care for it to start with.
Also, you know how much I love the brother relationship and the relationships in general, so that I probably don't need to offer any disclaimer in that regard? But I find it so idiotic that in 5x20--two episodes after 5x18 and all of its intensity and themes of doing it ourselves, etc.--the big new plan was for Sam to say "Yes" in an attempt to corral him into the hole. I want to love the brotherly moments that whole decision involved, but the premise is so ridiculous from the get-go that I just can't get behind it. There was absolutely no reason to believe anyone could control Lucifer, certainly not his "one true vessel"--because I would assume part of what goes into being an angel's "true vessel" would be malleability (for lack of a better word; receptiveness, responsiveness, etc.). I truly, deeply hated the debate around this plan boiled down to "You're a grownup now, Sammy," instead of, you know, "WHERE IS YOUR BRAIN? HOW IS THIS A REASONABLE PLAN?" Really, show? Dean saying "Yes" to Michael, which was written as unsympathetic and wrong and had everyone all on his case, had so much more logical reasoning behind it than this. It just makes me want to scratch my eyes out to watch it.
Then to go on from there: Sam's rage (which has been an undercurrent since S1, really, but since when is it a Big Problem that Sam has to overcome?), Bobby going with Sam's idea (what??), Castiel going with Sam's big idea (I can't even...), Dean's problem with the whole thing not being logic (god forbid) or just how much they love each other, but that he must learn to let Sam grow up or learn to love him for who he is or some such (oh my god, it's like they were trying to make the brothers back up from everything that went down in S4)... The themes and decisions just felt so out of harmony with what the characters had been through before.
Speaking of internal consistency, I don't understand why they suddenly brought in a toy soldier for this episode when the signs they had well established all the way back from S1 either were there or could have been there, one way or another: the Impala itself (let his eye catch just on her) or Dean's amulet. They could have had John's journal on the dashboard or something after Dean had looked at it once before facing Lucifer and Michael. There were so many things, but they used something with no history, that calls back to nothing that came before it. I get what they were doing and that it wasn't the toy soldier that Sam considered home, but the Impala, and that it wasn't the toy soldier that Sam loved more than anything, but Dean. But the setup and execution for it was so terribly lazy and out of left field. They needed to use what they had established as emotionally significant.
Also, just in general, I like understated writing more than big signboards blaring at me, and that's what half of the episode felt like. I love the Impala, but I didn't like the voice-over narration spelling everything out for me, and I didn't like the "payoff" of the Impala's story being the light that shined on that toy soldier. I get that it's not about the toy soldier at all, that the toy soldier is just a symbol, but... well, I went into all of that above. They had everything they needed to give that moment significance, but they threw in something new as the connection point, and that's just... very unsatisfying to me.
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One of my major problems with it is a problem with the last few episodes of S5: characterization, particularly choices and motivations. It seemed like there was a shift in the show's themes
I agree. I felt that shift very much. It seemed as if they had a complete change of direction and everything was meant to make us think that what was happening was the only possible thing while there was no rational through-line for it. I also felt the disconnection of Sam saying that he's the less of them all with his absolute certitude that he'd be able to control Lucifer. Of the two one: if Sam believes he's the less of them all what makes him think he could control Lucifer? that plan acme out of nowhere, had no foreshadowing and it was absolutely crazy (and not the good kind, either).
but that he must learn to let Sam grow up or learn to love him for who he is or some such
Oh, i think that for me it was the worst part and even more so with the hypocritical writing of season 6. Let me explain: it seemed to me as if they were flattening Dean and Sam's issues so much and making them all about Dean being too controlling when I had never seen that dynamic. Dean had been rash in his decisions when Sam's well being was at stake, yes, but Sam had been able to emotionally manipulate Dean as well (think of Hunted). To see Sam say that all he did in season 4 was because Dean wasn't letting him grow up made me dislike Sam's characterization so much because season 4 hadn't felt like that at all. It was like Sam couldn't realize that Dean had almost nothing to do with his choices and they were evidences of his flaws/mistakes not of a controlling Dean. That Sam may have preferred Ruby's brand of companionship, a relationship in which he only had superficial power because Ruby was manipulating him, was a slap in the face of Sam's characterization. Apparently all he wanted in a relationship was that kind of deception. I try to ignore Sam ever said that stuff.
That got worse in season 6 for me because after having Dean back off and let Sam make his decision (as heavy-handed and flattening of their issues that was), the writers created a situation in which it's Dean who has to take responsibilities for Sam completely and to the extreme of having to decide death and life situations for him. Sam is just the poor victim. I think of season 6 that's the major disappointment for me. It was like the writers couldn't write anything else but Sam being in need of saving and Dean having to figure out what was wrong with Sam and save him.
Let's ignore the toy soldier, okay? I get what they were trying to do but it was a bad, bad choice.
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Absolutely. Ugh. It was one of the most ridiculous things they could have chosen to do, especially after the extravagant way in which they shut down Dean's choice to say Yes. What, a better option is for someone "they need to let grow up" (of all things) give the Devil his one true vessel? Oh, please. That was all such sloppy writing, I can't even stomach watching most of that arc, to be honest.
To see Sam say that all he did in season 4 was because Dean wasn't letting him grow up made me dislike Sam's characterization so much because season 4 hadn't felt like that at all.
I AM DOING JUMPING JACKS IN MY HEAD FOR HOW MUCH I AGREE WITH THIS COMMENT. Seriously. I remember absolutely loving S4 because it felt as if the show was letting the brothers actually grow up and have a more complex relationship as a natural progression from what they had been through before. Then S5 came along ("Fallen Idols," specifically), and it was like the show pulled the rug out from under the brothers' characterization. Ugh, ugh. I try to block that out of my memory, too.
It was like the writers couldn't write anything else but Sam being in need of saving and Dean having to figure out what was wrong with Sam and save him.
The show's great and obsessive love for this particular storyline is one of its great failures, in my opinion. It's a huge disservice to Sam (forever cornering him in as an object), and what it does (or, rather, doesn't do) for Dean is... so disappointing that I lack words for how much I loathe it.
The toy soldier is happily ignored. A potentially beautiful idea with a horrible, lazy execution.
(I have to run back to work, but I will respond to your next comment soon! <333)
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