Countdown to destruction...

Sep 02, 2010 07:56

I'm kind of checking in and out of the news thread and a handful of people have brought up the question as to whether or not LJ made some kind of contractual deal with FB & Twitter to push users towards these other services. And now LJ is in a tight spot, legally speaking, because their customers are clearly screaming DO NOT WANT and packing up in ( Read more... )

Leave a comment

some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories trystbat September 2 2010, 16:48:12 UTC
Facebook & Twitter don't make deals that require specific types of services or content sharing. Think about it: They don't need to. They are the 8,000lb. gorillas in the room. They are where everyone else wants to be. They can just sit back & let third parties come to them, begging to share their measly content on FB/Twitter's platforms.

Fact: All FB/Twitter requires from third parties (be it LJ or Yahoo!) is accurate branding of FB/Twitter & secure login procedures. End of story.

It's up to the third party to come up with creative integrations for sharing their content on the FB/Twitter platforms. The third party (LJ, in this case) is desperate to get their content out into the massive audience that FB/Twitter has. LJ already has FB/Twitter Connect so users can automatically ship their journal posts to the other platforms.

But what really drives engagement on LJ? Comments on posts between users. So why not create a way to put those comments automatically on FB/Twitter? Ta-da.

It's not that anyone's evil here. You just have to think like a businessperson & know what's going on in the industry. Everyone wants more action on their sites & sees that they can get that thru exposure on the massively big, popular social networks du jour.

And frankly, moving to another site doesn't "solve" anything unless, oh, that site is run by someone who's independently wealthy or it's a nonprofit & the site has no need of a modern money-making business model.

Reply

Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories sarahbellem September 2 2010, 17:08:09 UTC
Thank you for your insider opinion. Howerver, I've never said it would "solve" anything by moving to Dw, fwiw.

Reply

Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories trystbat September 2 2010, 17:24:19 UTC
I just suspect that DW & every other tiny site will eventually need to add ads, sponsorships, integrations w/the rest of the big o' Internet, etc., or whatever else pisses off ppl that LJ is doing. Bec. such is the way of the business world.

Like most companies, LJ started off as a small project by a guy wanting to create some neat online features. Yahoo!, Facebook, Google, most everybody started off that way. And they, hey, we can make this into a real job! Cool. Except there are tradeoffs for both the ppl inside the company & for the users.

Reply

Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories sarahbellem September 2 2010, 17:52:54 UTC
"or whatever else pisses off ppl that LJ is doing"

What pisses me off is:

Privacy issues. Which, as you already know, are a huge deal for me right now regarding LJ, without having to add the involuntary crossposting/pingback worry on top of it. Also, getting someone's verbal promise not to spread the content of your LJ outside of your LJ doesn't work. Ask the last asshole who spouted off my private information to someone because they felt it would put them in an advantageous position. I know, the internet is never going to be private, but I would rather do without the default "publish this comment everywhere regardless of the revealing information it puts out there about the original poster" thing. Make it opt-in for each user to determine for their own journal, not default and determined by the commenter, and I will happily shut up about it and continue using LJ.

Also, on a somewhat lesser note, the complete radio silence from LJ regarding this outcry. There has to be SOMEONE, an intern or hell, even the janitor, who could be authorized to say "On behalf of Livejournal Corp., we hear your concerns and we are trying to address them as carefully as possible. Please be patient." They amended the original News post with a little blurb along those lines last night, some 20 hours after the panic, but otherwise, there's been no site-wide official statement saying anything about this.

(Seriously need more coffee...)

Reply

Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories florentinescot September 2 2010, 18:11:41 UTC
nods. With a blurb that says (in part) "we certainly don't want OUR real names spread around" .....

Reply

Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories sarahbellem September 2 2010, 18:18:16 UTC
I know there are roughly one million LJ accounts in existence worldwide, probably 50-75% of that are actually active, so 5-10% of the active users saying "No, I do not want this" is probably not going to be statistically relevant to the company, if all they're going off of is that one poll and the post in News.

That's going to be a bitter pill to swallow for those of us who have been with LJ for the better part of a decade and have permanent accounts, and really, permanent relationships that have been forged through LJ. However, permanent account users generate no revenue for the company, so we're already marginalized. We're as bad as free-users, except we get more perks because we paid up front for them pre-Six Apart. There's been 3 changes of ownership with the company in that time, and so what does LJ have to lose if the permanent account holders are pissed off about anything? Nothing. They lose a loyal member, but not a paying customer.

Reply

Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories trystbat September 2 2010, 18:24:29 UTC
Payment is not what generates the most revenue on a site like LJ. Interaction does. That's why comment-porting is a key integration for them.

Interaction keeps users on the site. The small number of permanent users interact with a far greater number of paid & even-better free users (who see ads). Websites thrive on engagement like that.

And that, again, is why they want to port comments over to FB/Twitter, so those vast audiences see LJ content & hopefully come join LJ too.

Reply

Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories sarahbellem September 2 2010, 18:46:19 UTC
Because I'm not in the internet business, I'm not sure I understand: How does interaction create revenue?

I hope that's not coming across as flippant. Apparently I'm having problems with my tone on LJ today. I'm really actually curious to know.

Reply

how websites try to make $ trystbat September 2 2010, 19:04:15 UTC
Yeah, interaction is definitely an insider-y concept. Interaction or engagement (to be even more jargony!) keeps users involved with your website. They don't just read a page & go away. They stay on the page & do stuff: post content, comment on content, "like" or "buzz up" or "digg" content, tag content, upload photos/videos, etc.

The longer a user is on your site, the more time you have to show them ads. Advertisements have always been & prob. always will be the #1 way for websites to make money.

Individual payments just haven't cut it. Most users hate paying for website services. They want newspapers, blogs, social networks, email, you name it, for free. There are extremely few services ppl will pay for online. Sure, we shop online, we even buy music now online (remember how HUGE that was when iTunes succeeded? ok, I used to work at a music dot.com, we were floored). But there are few micro-payment subscriptions that work.

Even our permanent LJ accounts aren't really like "paying" online. We paid once & can forget about it. That's why we love it! And I suspect there are few paid LJ users & a great many more free accounts -- that's statistically typical for any site that offers a fee-for-service option. Last time I heard for Y!, paid services (like premium fantasy sports - which is the #1 fantasy sports online, ranked higher than ESPN) accounted for maybe a quarter or, at most, a third of our revenues. Nice, but not our main biz.

Anyway, sites need engagement via some kind of interaction so user stay on their site & view ads. Then the site can sell ads based on how many ppl visit & how long they stay.

That's me trying to condense a bunch of industry gobbledy-gook in 3 minutes! Hope it makes some sense :-)

Reply

Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories banshea September 2 2010, 19:47:46 UTC
Does anyone here play World of Warcraft? My boyfriend recently made a huge deal of canceling his account because of privacy issues. They recently changed things so that whenever you log in to the game, you must use your full, legal name. This can be seen by your in-game friends, and also by friends of friends. You must also use your full, legal name whenever you want to post to the game forums.

Initially, there was a huge, negative reaction. To try to demonstrate that there was nothing to be upset about, one of the staff members posted to the forums using his full, legal name. In a matter of hours, photos of his house had been uploaded and hundreds of pizzas had been ordered to his address, among other things. I believe the decision was then made to allow staff members to use their first name only, but everyone else still has to use first and last, because apparently only staffers have to worry about psychotic gamer revenge.

Reply

Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories swashbucklr September 2 2010, 20:57:15 UTC
Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories banshea September 2 2010, 21:51:17 UTC
As I understand it, my boyfriend is still concerned because of the friend-of-a-friend privacy issue in-game, which I think is still present. The forums were never really his primary concern, because he never posts there, but it's certainly the worst example of how this can go horribly, horribly wrong.

Reply

Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories florentinescot September 2 2010, 21:00:53 UTC
nods. Yeah, right!

Reply

Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories trystbat September 2 2010, 18:17:11 UTC
I'm not defending LJ, you should know that. I'm saying that no business on the Internet is perfect & FakeJournalThatDoesn'tExistYet business may very well have the same problems in 6 months, a year, 3 years down the road bec. pretty much all Internet businesses are subject to the same pressures.

Many, if not most, online businesses have very weak privacy policies & terms of services. Most privacy policies are esp. weak regarding third-party content sharing. When I was working w/our policy team on Y!'s internal third-party guidelines a few years ago, I did a lot of research & found that only a few of the largest companies even discussed the topic. The smaller they are, the less likely they give a crap about protecting user data. And the federal laws are minimal on the whole topic.

Companies get bought, management changes, customer service & corporate communication sucks. If you find a company that has all of these things figured out perfectly & is still making enough money to survive & support millions of users, let everyone know.

Reply

Re: some insider industry info to combat conspiracy theories sarahbellem September 2 2010, 18:24:56 UTC
I didn't think you were defending LJ, and I know you better than to think that you're just playing devil's advocate for the sake of being contrary. For what it's worth, I was just stating what my issues were with the situation right now and why it's making me consider uprooting and trust me, this is not something I'm considering lightly, either... I've thought about migrating to DW since getting an account there, but I've never actually done it because I have deep emotional ties to the people here on LJ, and if that's where the people I want to talk to are, then that's where I'll be. But I'm having real problems with this latest development and I want to be honest about it. My line is drawn at privacy, apparently. All the other stuff that came before, like the management changes, ads, deletion of "questionable content" communities, didn't hit home for me. It's not that they didn't send up little red flags, but I know that management changes, I know that companies need to generate revenue somehow, and that times are changing and Twitter and FB are the new badasses on the block and we're all going to have to deal with them... But removing my right to chose the level of privacy I want for myself just crosses that line.

Reply


Leave a comment

Up