"HEY, DID YOU HEAR THE AQUA LAGUNA IS COMING?" "YEAH, WE BETTER GET TO HIGH GROUND!"
I love this so much. It will never not be hilarious. (Also, I'm really glad that--at some point in your summaries, I don't even know where this came up--you brought up that Sanji is Usopp's...I dunno what to call it, anyway, he is to Usopp as Zoro is to Chopper, and I really noticed that when rereading this arc. Sanji, why can't you stop being so stupid about women so I can like you more?)
Chopper wonders if he did something at the bookstore to make Robin mad. (Oh, Chopper. ;_;)
+1 on Oh, Chopper. ;_;
[Water 7] Also, that his reaction when he learns the truth is "Robin doesn't hate us?" ;_;
Is it time for the "stupidest devil fruit" conversation again?
I dunno, I think it's pretty handy for anybody with some kind of clandestine purpose--assassins, spies, thieves, etc. So, perfect for the person who got it, basically. Useless for anyone who DOESN'T plan to spend a lot of time sneaking around.
[Enies Lobby]Also, the "revolving door" attack he uses against Luffy is
( ... )
I dunno what to call it, anyway, he is to Usopp as Zoro is to Chopper
Yes! Sanji is such a good big brother, and he gets to shine in this arc in particular (in more ways than one). I am grateful to fanfic for pointing out the way he so often looks out for Usopp.
Well, part of my problem is that Oda's idea of Sanji shining just makes me angry.
[Water 7/Enies Lobby] In this arc, even--yes, I love the way his care for Usopp shows, but then he has a couple other moments, like "Being a man means forgiving a women when she lies" and "I'll die before I kick a woman" that just...UGH. You're not being "cool," Sanji, you're being gross and sexist.
[Water 7/Enies Lobby] You're not being "cool," Sanji, you're being gross and sexist.
Ugh, yes, totally agreed. (I just hit the first of those in my rereading, and I kept wondering if I was mistranslating the line, because WTF, Sanji.) It was more some of the later stuff I was thinking of, like when he comes through at the critical moment in Enies Lobby. Or thinking back to his "Mr Prince" shtick in Alabasta.
For me [Enies Lobby]it's the moment when he's telling Usopp, "I'll do what you can't do, and you'll do what I can't. With you here, we'll be able to save Robin." That's one of my absolute favourite Sanji moments.
Yes, that is absolutely a great moment. (And Sara, I get that you were saying you wanted to see more of that sort of thing.) I just feel like those OTHER moments sort of sour the character for me.
Honestly those moments (and the, um, increasing bust size of certain characters) make me feel like Oda has been trapped in some sort of shounen bubble for too long.
I just feel like those OTHER moments sort of sour the character for me.
Yeah, I can definitely understand that. It's the main reason why Sanji will never be my favorite Strawhat, despite his occasional moments of awesome.
Honestly those moments (and the, um, increasing bust size of certain characters) make me feel like Oda has been trapped in some sort of shounen bubble for too long.
I dunno - I kinda like that first line, but that might just be because I really like how Oda draws Sanji in that particular panel.
And yes - it's a bit difficult for me to remember that once upon a time, Sanji was more or less the Strawhats' resident tactician. I mean, all of the Strawhats have a savant-like ability to calculate their strategies in a battle, but Sanji always seemed the best at analyzing the big picture, so to speak. Espionage, information-gathering... when there aren't pretty ladies around to distract him, Sanji is actually scary levels of smart (well, he does have the most "normal" upbringing of the Monster Trio's members - or at least one that brought him into contact with ordinary people the most).
It's weird, since you'd expect this particular skill-set to be Robin's, but the two major arcs when it came in handy, Robin wasn't really in a position to use it in the Strawhats' favor.
[Water 7, I guess; kinda vague] Oh, I like the way the panel is drawn. But to me that lines looks like more of the stereotype that men are truthful and honorable and women are manipulative liars.
Maybe Oda doesn't really buy into that sort of thing; maybe it's just Sanji's character. But it certainly seems like we're supposed to be impressed with Sanji's code of honor or whatever it is.
[Volume 37] But to me that line looks like more of the stereotype that men are truthful and honorable and women are manipulative liars.
Interestingly, I don't read it like that (though that certainly seems like a reasonable interpretation on the face of it). What really bugs me is the implication that a chivalrous man will/should let a woman "get away" with anything, including totally abusive behavior. Ugh. It's insulting AND patronizing.
I actually will have things to say in the next volume about why I love Sanji for not giving up on Robin regardless of whether she's guilty or not (as far as he knows), but to me that is a completely separate issue from some bizarre code of chivalry. (Maybe it's not different in Sanji's head. But it annoys me less if I explain it from a different point of view.) But more on that later.
[Water 7]Taken on their own I agree; in the world of One Piece, going by what we'd seen of various characters and their backstories by then, I could see it as saying something more like, "This world is harder for women, so they often have to lie to get by; a true man recognises that and won't hold it against them".
I mean, that can and does certainly have sexist implications too ("protect those fragile women!!", plus it says nothing about the world needing to change in that regard), but they're at least a litte bit different than what it might first look like? In a world where men tend to set the rules, women do often have to think fast and use subterfuge to not get squashed entirely. That kind of thinking seems more in line with what we'd seen of Sanji's character up until then, too...
[Fishman Island and later arcs]I'm not very willing to give Oda of today much of the benefit of doubt when it comes to gender issues (sadly!!), but back when this arc was created I think it's possible to consider other angles.
I read your comment in email, so I laughed when I saw what arc you had marked the last line as a spoiler for. Oh, Oda. But yeah, I don't think he deserves the benefit of the doubt, unfortunately. Your reading of the line is interesting, but I'm not sure I buy it.
Yes! This is the side of him I wish Oda would show more often. Zoro is the one who figured out the hidden message Robin was trying to communicate, but Sanji was the one who immediately understood that the exact words she used might matter, instead of focusing on the hurt and shock of rejection.
I might not get to use it as often as I like, but I need a better awesome Sanji icon.
I love this so much. It will never not be hilarious. (Also, I'm really glad that--at some point in your summaries, I don't even know where this came up--you brought up that Sanji is Usopp's...I dunno what to call it, anyway, he is to Usopp as Zoro is to Chopper, and I really noticed that when rereading this arc. Sanji, why can't you stop being so stupid about women so I can like you more?)
Chopper wonders if he did something at the bookstore to make Robin mad. (Oh, Chopper. ;_;)
+1 on Oh, Chopper. ;_;
[Water 7]
Also, that his reaction when he learns the truth is "Robin doesn't hate us?" ;_;
Is it time for the "stupidest devil fruit" conversation again?
I dunno, I think it's pretty handy for anybody with some kind of clandestine purpose--assassins, spies, thieves, etc. So, perfect for the person who got it, basically. Useless for anyone who DOESN'T plan to spend a lot of time sneaking around.
[Enies Lobby]Also, the "revolving door" attack he uses against Luffy is ( ... )
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Yes! Sanji is such a good big brother, and he gets to shine in this arc in particular (in more ways than one). I am grateful to fanfic for pointing out the way he so often looks out for Usopp.
I wish Oda would let Sanji shine more often.
Reply
[Water 7/Enies Lobby]
In this arc, even--yes, I love the way his care for Usopp shows, but then he has a couple other moments, like "Being a man means forgiving a women when she lies" and "I'll die before I kick a woman" that just...UGH. You're not being "cool," Sanji, you're being gross and sexist.
Reply
You're not being "cool," Sanji, you're being gross and sexist.
Ugh, yes, totally agreed. (I just hit the first of those in my rereading, and I kept wondering if I was mistranslating the line, because WTF, Sanji.) It was more some of the later stuff I was thinking of, like when he comes through at the critical moment in Enies Lobby. Or thinking back to his "Mr Prince" shtick in Alabasta.
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Honestly those moments (and the, um, increasing bust size of certain characters) make me feel like Oda has been trapped in some sort of shounen bubble for too long.
Reply
Yeah, I can definitely understand that. It's the main reason why Sanji will never be my favorite Strawhat, despite his occasional moments of awesome.
Honestly those moments (and the, um, increasing bust size of certain characters) make me feel like Oda has been trapped in some sort of shounen bubble for too long.
Break out of the bubble, Oda!
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And yes - it's a bit difficult for me to remember that once upon a time, Sanji was more or less the Strawhats' resident tactician. I mean, all of the Strawhats have a savant-like ability to calculate their strategies in a battle, but Sanji always seemed the best at analyzing the big picture, so to speak. Espionage, information-gathering... when there aren't pretty ladies around to distract him, Sanji is actually scary levels of smart (well, he does have the most "normal" upbringing of the Monster Trio's members - or at least one that brought him into contact with ordinary people the most).
It's weird, since you'd expect this particular skill-set to be Robin's, but the two major arcs when it came in handy, Robin wasn't really in a position to use it in the Strawhats' favor.
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Oh, I like the way the panel is drawn. But to me that lines looks like more of the stereotype that men are truthful and honorable and women are manipulative liars.
Maybe Oda doesn't really buy into that sort of thing; maybe it's just Sanji's character. But it certainly seems like we're supposed to be impressed with Sanji's code of honor or whatever it is.
Reply
But to me that line looks like more of the stereotype that men are truthful and honorable and women are manipulative liars.
Interestingly, I don't read it like that (though that certainly seems like a reasonable interpretation on the face of it). What really bugs me is the implication that a chivalrous man will/should let a woman "get away" with anything, including totally abusive behavior. Ugh. It's insulting AND patronizing.
I actually will have things to say in the next volume about why I love Sanji for not giving up on Robin regardless of whether she's guilty or not (as far as he knows), but to me that is a completely separate issue from some bizarre code of chivalry. (Maybe it's not different in Sanji's head. But it annoys me less if I explain it from a different point of view.) But more on that later.
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I mean, that can and does certainly have sexist implications too ("protect those fragile women!!", plus it says nothing about the world needing to change in that regard), but they're at least a litte bit different than what it might first look like? In a world where men tend to set the rules, women do often have to think fast and use subterfuge to not get squashed entirely. That kind of thinking seems more in line with what we'd seen of Sanji's character up until then, too...
[Fishman Island and later arcs]I'm not very willing to give Oda of today much of the benefit of doubt when it comes to gender issues (sadly!!), but back when this arc was created I think it's possible to consider other angles.
Reply
Reply
Yes! This is the side of him I wish Oda would show more often. Zoro is the one who figured out the hidden message Robin was trying to communicate, but Sanji was the one who immediately understood that the exact words she used might matter, instead of focusing on the hurt and shock of rejection.
I might not get to use it as often as I like, but I need a better awesome Sanji icon.
Reply
Reply
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