One Piece 35

[sara_tanaquil]

I was going to put off posting this a little longer, but since mangaroo might have to take books back to the library soon, I decided to go ahead.

[This will cease to be a spoiler for Volume 35 by the time you hit chapter 2]I was SO excited to start Water 7 in the last volume. And don't get me wrong, Water 7 is awesome, no question. But I forgot one tiny detail, because I practice selective memory for the WIN: doing Water 7 meant I

Comments

[printfogey]

And ultimately, when you doubt yourself in a situation like theirs, it's not just yourself that you hurt.

That is also very true! Which is why I think it's a good thing that we saw the Chopper scene, painful though it is. It shows that very clearly.

The Luffy vs Usopp fight is so painful not just because they have been such good friends, but that both of them are mad at themselves too. Or at least I think Usopp is, and is projecting some of that anger at Luffy. But even if he loses, he "wins", in that then one could say he "proves" to Luffy that he, Usopp, hasn't got what it takes to keep sailing with him. ;__; (He's wrong, of course, but going by the shaky logic of hurt emotions and angry shards of pride and all...)

And as for Luffy, I think he was extra mad at Usopp for pretty much forcing Luffy to physically hurt him when he was already so wounded. (Well, of course technically Luffy could have refused the challenge, so he wasn't completely forced, but shonen pirate honour and all that...)

re your spoiler tag - that I definitely agree with! [Water 7/Enies Lobby]Much as I can't seem to stop myself, everytime I re-read this part, wanting things to somehow magically turn different this time around, (and I do think without the double-whammy of losing the money and hearing about Merry Usopp would not have come to this point), this really is something he needed to go through sooner or later. If it hadn't happened at this point - if for instance Usopp had been present when Iceburg gave Luffy the news about Merry - his self-worth issues would have come boiling to the point at some later time, anyway. Maybe already at Enies Lobby, and that could have been disastrous for all of them. (I don't mean he'd up and leave the crew there in the midst of danger, of course! But without this previous passage in fire of the self, and the need to hide himself from Luffy that led to the creation of Sogeking, he might have become paralysed in the wrong moment and be too slow to shake it off... perhaps.)

[wednesday_10_00]

But even if he loses, he "wins", in that then one could say he "proves" to Luffy that he, Usopp, hasn't got what it takes to keep sailing with him.

Oh, Usopp. T_T

But really I'm quoting this because I want to thank you for all your insightful comments. I love One Piece discussion! (Thanks again, Sara, for bringing it back!)

[printfogey]

*^_^* Thank you! I've probably spent more time thinking about the events in this volume than of anything else in this series, to be quite honest.

[sara_tanaquil]

I'm so happy that you're both playing! I get such a kick out of hearing other people's impressions and theories, and seeing what other people noticed that I didn't.

[mangaroo]

But even if he loses, he "wins", in that then one could say he "proves" to Luffy that he, Usopp, hasn't got what it takes to keep sailing with him.

I know w_10_00 already commented, but THIS. I spent so much time thinking and rethinking both the challenge and the outcome of the fight (Usopp, if you don't think you're strong enough to sail with the Strawhats, why do you think you're strong enough to fight Luffy for the Merry?), and this is the only reading that makes sense to me. Even though Usopp's battle techniques were awesome and clever.

[printfogey]

I definitely think it was a strong factor, whether or not he didn't realise it to himself, but I could also see Usopp still hoping that maybe, since he does know Luffy so well, he could just pull off a victory for Merry - and for Merry's sake (and in some backward defensive way, his own hurt pride), he had to try.

Plus, he's also so genuinely angry. Some of it is at himself, some of it for the whole situation probably, and a good deal is towards Luffy, unfairly or not. He's obviously mad at him for giving up so easily on Merry (as Usopp would think, since he didn't witness Luffy's first reaction) I'm thinking he might also be irrationally angry at Luffy for not stopping Usopp from leaving the crew (Usopp did kinda pause during the big argument when he said he had thought about it... I dunno, maybe he really did hope Luffy would jump in and say "You can't! We want you here and we need you!" right away? Though it's also quite likely he'd already made up his mind by then.)

And I could also see some envy at Luffy for being so strong and confident and Luffylike and ambitious... usually those are traits Usopp loves in Luffy, but at this dark point I could see him being angry at Luffy for being everything Usopp thinks he isn't. Not as a conscious good motivation to challenge him, but one more thing bubbling in the fray of emotions. (just speculating - sorry if I go on too much!)

[sara_tanaquil]

I'm inclined to agree. Apart from the other things you pointed out, Usopp is characterized by a weird combination of self-doubt and prickly pride (I think this might actually be a somewhat common combination, because the pride is trying to compensate for the constant, nagging doubts). The quitting came mostly from the self-doubt, but the challenge stemmed from the pride.

He originally wanted to be captain of his own ship, he tried repeatedly to claim the title of captain when he first joined (the whole "Captain Usopp" running gag both is and isn't a joke), and I think there's a tiny part of him - maybe part he isn't even really conscious of - that resents Luffy being captain, even if rationally he would acknowledge that Luffy is clearly more qualified. Most of the time those things remain in his subconscious, but they would have easily popped to the surface when a genuine disagreement on how to go forward came up. Most of all when the Merry's life was at stake.

Not a very attractive side of Usopp's personality, maybe, but it makes him human. And (without getting into spoilers) I think this whole episode goes a long way toward helping him to resolve those unspoken, unacknowledged sources of resentment.

[printfogey]

Makes sense to me. I also think a fear of rejection is part of that shaky, prickly pride of his. When he'd made up his mind about leaving home, he was going to set off on his own boat and was ready to take his leave off Luffy, Zoro and Nami. He didn't ask if he could join them as an ordinary crew member (rather than as the captain, which he'd asked about before already). In part I think because he simply assumes they wouldn't accept him - look how stunned he is when Zoro says "Just shut up and hurry aboard" and Luffy adds "You're already one of us, right?" That's his self-doubts. And in part because as long as he doesn't ask, he can't get openly rejected - that's the pride. Fits together when you think about it. He's a complex guy...

[sara_tanaquil]

I already responded to serrende as well, but continuing to mull on this issue: one thing that has bothered me a lot off and on is why Luffy doesn't simply tell Usopp that he can have the Merry BEFORE they duel for her. He's already made the decision to walk away from the ship.

I think it does come down to respecting Usopp's pride as a warrior, however misguided. I was just digging back through some earlier volumes looking for Robin-related stuff, and I was really struck by how many parallels I saw with the Dorry-Broggy fight. When he was told the truth after the fight about the bomb that Dorry swallowed, Broggy said that he knew something was wrong with Dorry, but he couldn't insult his friend by refusing to accept his challenge. I might think the warrior code of Elbaf is kind of crazy, but it is the code that Usopp most admires and wants to live by.

Leaving aside the part of him that was just plain hurt and stubborn and angry, Luffy must have known that it would be far more humiliating to Usopp if he tossed the Merry to him like... a bone to a dog, or something. Or an act of charity. Once they had fought and Usopp had lost, Luffy was within his rights to decide to turn the Merry over to him, but not before, because they needed to fight to establish who had the right to decide Merry's fate.

I might just be thinking in circles here... gah, stupid, stubborn boys.